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BSB and magic standard; who what where?
Topic Started: 18th January 2011 - 10:11 PM (1,762 Views)
Ratatak Gristlegouger
Stormvermin
so i see that with skaven, either a stormvermin standard bearer of a Chieften can both take magic standards.

Whats the diff between having ur chieften take the BSB vs. the Storm banner (or any magic banner)

should i be fielding the BSB and a magic banner?

what are the perks to the BSB..and if my chieften takes a standard, is he alone? in a unit of clanrats? stormvermin?

how do u all run em?
"Doooom rockets in flight.... Afternoon delight!"
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Seiyru
Stormvermin
i usually run a BSB in a unit of clannies with my current models
depending on the list i sometimes have him with Storm Banner or Banner of Underempire
also plague monks can take a banner too
having a BSB is virtually imperative in skaven armies as ive read on here
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Ratatak Gristlegouger
Stormvermin
So a magic standard does what a bsb does plus whatever its magical properties are?
"Doooom rockets in flight.... Afternoon delight!"
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Scurrilous
Warlord
Yes only reason people don't put magic standard on the BSB is that he cannot take magical items with it.
Tournemant results to date:
vs Vampire Counts: 1 victory
vs Dwarves: 1 victory
vs Daemons: 1 Draw
vs Brettonians: 1 draw, 1 loss
vs Skaven: 1 victory
vs Lizardmen: 1 victory
vs Dark Elves: 1 loss
vs High Elves: 1 loss
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CapAmr05
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A BSB gives properties (not related to the magic affects of the banner) to the rest of the army. When within a certain distance of your BSB other units may reroll failed leadership tests (such as panic or break tests).

A unit standard (whether magical or not) does not grant this reroll ability.

BSBs (whether you buy him a magic standard or not) are imperative in keeping our forces on the table and functioning properly. Without one you'd be more apt to run away.

A BSB model can move about (even from unit to unit) like a normal character, though the safe place to keep him is within a unit; because your enemy will be gunning for the little guy if you give him the chance.

--Cap
Lonewolf Grand Tournament April 28-30

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Clan Skrittar
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biggmcg
Clanrat
BSBs are absolutely vital, but I wouldn't bother with giving him a magic standard. I usually place him in the middle of the army with a bunch of clanrats for protection. I like to spend his magic points on tooling him up with some weapons to surprise the enemy in combat.

Don't forget that frenzied units ignore psychology tests (except break tests), so making up one flank of your army with plague monks and rat ogres means your BSB can cover more of the units that need it.

On a side note, I always take 40 plague monks led by a plague priest with the plague banner. The rerolls to hit and wound coupled with the possible 54 attacks lead to ridiculous combat resolution. Chuck in a couple of good spells from the priest and there's really very little that can stand in its way. Pair the unit up with rat ogres to prevent your opponent drawing the monks out of line unsupported.
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Paricidas
Doomwheel Driver
Skaven access to magic banners is extremly limited (max 3)
As the stormbanner and the plague banner are quite mandatory, you will need a BSB with a magic banner and without magic items if you want to max banners.

An enemy who is used to skaven will know how vital a BSB is for a skaven army and will spent a reasonable amount of his actions to kill this guy. So do not even think off letting a magic banner berarer get close to anything but flyers/light cavalery as he would be hacked into pieces.

If you take him without a magic banner, you can give him a halberd and a 2+ save which will turn him into quite a combat char. I myself do not use my BSB in this way as it will make him nr.1 target for short range death spells and twohanded units.
Ceterum censeo Altdorfem esse delendam
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Ratatak Gristlegouger
Stormvermin
So the battle standard can be carried by a plaquemonk unit, stormvermin, or a chieftain?
"Doooom rockets in flight.... Afternoon delight!"
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Halceon
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Theoretical warp-physicist
No. The Battle Standard can only be carried by a chieftain. This act forbids them from taking any magical items, regardless of whether the banner he carries is also a magical banner. This does not disable him from taking any of his normal equipment choices and scavenge pile items. The battle standard itself isn't a magical standard, but it does confer +1 combat resolution in addition to unit standards and gives the leadership reroll that CapAmr spoke of.

The standards of stormvermin and plague monks function exactly the same as other unit standards, except that one unit of each type per army is allowed to take a magical banner on top of that. The magical banner adds its properties to the unit standard, still keeping the +1 combat resolution and the extra victory points if captured by the enemy. It does not confer a reroll around it.

Strategically speaking, it's best to keep your BSB near all vital combats, but not in them. If you're taking the stormbanner, the BSB would be the prime carrier for it, leaving the plague monk slot to the plague banner and the Stormvermin slot for one of the cheaper banners. Or, if you want to use the Sacred Banner of the Horned Rat, your BSB will be the only one who can take it, giving the Stormbanner to the appropriately named stormvermin.
-Warpfire breather and propagandist Halceon
Torquemada
 
Wherever Halceon is, i'm sure he's looking down on us right now. No, he's not dead, mind you, he's just very condescending.


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CapAmr05
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Quote:
 
No. The Battle Standard can only be carried by a chieftain. This act forbids them from taking any magical items, regardless of whether the banner he carries is also a magical banner. This does not disable him from taking any of his normal equipment choices and scavenge pile items. The battle standard itself isn't a magical standard, but it does confer +1 combat resolution in addition to unit standards and gives the leadership reroll that CapAmr spoke of.


Actually, the highlighted statement is not ture;

A Chieften who carries the BSB, who does not opt to take a magical banner, can infact buy his XX alotment worth of magical items (armor, swords, trinkets, etc) while carrying the banner (in addition to any normal unit options available to him).

If a magical banner is bought for the Chieften (as an upgrade to the BSB), then he may not take any other magical items (even if the magic banner itself does not completely fill up his XX point allotment for magic items).

--Cap
Lonewolf Grand Tournament April 28-30

The Beer Phase Podcast

Clan Skrittar
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Chitterfitz
Warlord
But i do believe he can take items from the Scavenge pile if he takes a magic standard that doesn't fill his point allocation
Looking for the Limited Edition Skaven Standard Bearer. PM if you know where i can get one.
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Halceon
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Theoretical warp-physicist
Ah, ok. Yeah, Cap's right, serves me right for writing from memory.
-Warpfire breather and propagandist Halceon
Torquemada
 
Wherever Halceon is, i'm sure he's looking down on us right now. No, he's not dead, mind you, he's just very condescending.


The exploits of Clan Aiza
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Paricidas
Doomwheel Driver
Summary:

BSB: needs to be achiftain, if the chieftain carries magic items, he must not carry a magic banner and vice versa.

Stormvermin: One unit may carry a magic banner
Plague monks: see stormvermin

Total: max of 3 magic banners in the army.
Ceterum censeo Altdorfem esse delendam
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CapAmr05
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Quote:
 
But i do believe he can take items from the Scavenge pile if he takes a magic standard that doesn't fill his point allocation


Yup.

--Cap
Lonewolf Grand Tournament April 28-30

The Beer Phase Podcast

Clan Skrittar
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ratwhowouldbeking
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Clanrat
One thing to consider is that a Stormvermin magic banner is generally much more survivable than a BSB. Why? Command isn't killed until the rest of the unit is, or until the unit runs away. A BSB will generally be in base-to-base with a few models and is in dire straits against anything combat-worthy, especially if he has no magical equipment.

I prefer not to put my eggs in one basket. Plus, I like taking every bonus of SV I can squeeze out of them, and magic banners is a good one.
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