| doomwheel vs. A-bomb | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 17th January 2011 - 02:25 PM (2,862 Views) | |
| niel09ab | 17th January 2011 - 02:25 PM Post #1 |
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I havent made up my mind on which of theese great rare choices to rely on in my army. so.. I would ask you guys on which 1 you prefer, and ofc why? |
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| CapAmr05 | 17th January 2011 - 03:08 PM Post #2 |
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Considering both have random movement, I don't 'rely' on either of them. When choosing between the two, I employ the hellpit. He's great for soaking shooting and magic, scaring the enemy away from a flank, and ocassionally doing damage if he can get into combat. The end result is mine is a giant redherring that pull focus away from my other units, freeing them up to get more done. The random movement of both hampers their playbility greatly (unless you're consistently having to go short distances). No one can ever flee from their charge though, so that's a definite bonus if you're trying to pin a unit down. Use Doomwheels if you want to avoid combat and shoot expensive targets (hard to do with linear random movement); but if you can slip it behind enemy lines (and sight arcs) it will work. Use Aboms if you want to get into combat. --Cap |
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| Sleboda | 17th January 2011 - 03:09 PM Post #3 |
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Pensive Penguins Fan
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Indeed, which is why I take neither. (Though it must be said I will be trying two HPAs soon for a few games.) |
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| Mathusala0 | 17th January 2011 - 04:27 PM Post #4 |
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The Evil Underlord
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the hell pit actually CAN be fled/stand and shooted from. it uses the distance in it's 3d6 move as it's "maximum charge distance" as stated in the codex. besides you want them to take that terror check! a doomwheel may NOT be reacted to as it doesn't "charge" it just "hits" The thing about hellpits/doomwheels is they both do very different things. Doomwheels are great at killing off war-machines, Monsters, Characters not hiding in units, calvary units, but never big blocks of infantry. Hellpits are great at tearing apart just about anything but are best when faceing the largest block of elite infantry your opponent has. impact hits, random amounts of strength 6 goodness, and then thunderstomps. As I run 2 doomwheels and a hellpit, I place the hellpit in the center (but away from anything with flaming) and send it straight forwards. I place the doomwheels in opposition to my opponents monsters, war machines, ext. and run them straight at them. Doesn't matter how fast they go they will get attention and at least be bullet magnets. The random movement you have to learn how to cope with, keep "lanes" in your force to allow slow moveing wheels/hellpits to catch up. and sometimes you'll get a marvelous 17 inches forwards and surprise some poor giant/hydra/dragon thing. on top of this you'll overrun and pursue your "full random movement" therefor all of the 3d6 not the highest 2. warnings of close combat. Doomwheels will flee from anything that has ranks unless you get EXTREMELY lucky. as the doomwheels grind and rat attacks will almost never be enough to win a combat. Hellpits will be removing 10+ models a turn and should be just fine in prolonged combats. not to mention a lovely stubborn 8 rerollable with bsb. |
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| biggmcg | 17th January 2011 - 04:59 PM Post #5 |
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Clanrat
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I agree with Mathusala0. The Doomwheel attracts a lot of attention in my games, leading to some quite comical moments as huge formations of infantry try to avoid getting charged by it. Guess my opponents haven't figured out what it's for yet. As a bullet magnet and war machine hunter, it's very useful, especially when you get within 18". Drawing attention to it means your opponent is tying up his useful resources for the measly sum of 150 points, and if you're lucky, it will actually kill something. Mine ran down a badly placed varghulf the other day, killing it in one round, before being charged by a horde of ghouls and holding them in place for a turn. All in all, it can easily earn it's points back if used wisely. I've not played with an Abomb yet, but it's on my list. |
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| razaan | 17th January 2011 - 05:18 PM Post #6 |
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Chieftain
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I believe they FAQ's the HPA to give it the "Random Movement" special rule. |
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| Sleboda | 17th January 2011 - 05:29 PM Post #7 |
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Pensive Penguins Fan
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Funny, I thought so too and was about to post just that, but I just read the entire thing again and did not spot any update (may have missed it). It looks like the HPA's terror still does actually matter! Yea! |
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| CapAmr05 | 17th January 2011 - 05:44 PM Post #8 |
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Aboms and Doomwheels both have Random Movement; which in the BRB does not allow a charge reaction. It's been in the Skaven FAQ for a while now (for both); lefthand column bottom corner of page 4 in the Skaven FAQ.
Righthand column near the top, page 4;
--Cap |
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| Sleboda | 17th January 2011 - 06:39 PM Post #9 |
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Pensive Penguins Fan
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Thanks, Cap. I thought I had seen it before. It seems my reading skills have diminished in the last few weeks. Must be my delirium over how well the Steelers are doing. So, the HPA is back to crappier-than-the-points-you-pay status again. |
True scholars have more than just one book to study.
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| Vulcan | 17th January 2011 - 06:42 PM Post #10 |
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Clanrat
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Why? |
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| Mathusala0 | 17th January 2011 - 07:12 PM Post #11 |
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The Evil Underlord
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no charge reaction or terror. Ill take no charge reaction anyway. "hey you, fight this for a long time, no you can't stand and shoot it, no you can't flee. You just DIE!!!" |
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| ratwhowouldbeking | 17th January 2011 - 07:12 PM Post #12 |
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Clanrat
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I would normally take a Doomwheel + WLC rather than a HPA. More versatility for the same points. The HPA is overkill for a lot of things you'd prefer to charge it into. |
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| CapAmr05 | 17th January 2011 - 07:16 PM Post #13 |
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@Sleboda I'd rather not allow a charge reaction honestly, with the amount of bsb's in the game most people wouldn't fail a terror check (or will rally on the reroll next turn). If something flees your abom it'll leave you exposed to another round of open shooting, magic or counter charges. And taking away the stand and shoot is better than the ocassional benefit of forcing a terror test (terror is pretty worthless nowadays), remember they still take the fear test once locked in combat with the big guy. It's the Doomwheel that really took it in the pants, not being able to 'wheel' (it's in the NAME ffs) and having to move in a random straight line makes it much more killable. Most of the time you won't be pushing it into combat with an enemy unit because of it's subpar combat ability; and the things you'll be going after (monsters, dragons, heroes) can all wheel/maneuver away at a steady rate, while you're left hoping for high dice to catch up to them. --Cap |
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| Mathusala0 | 17th January 2011 - 07:22 PM Post #14 |
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The Evil Underlord
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nah. even if monsters can outmaneuver doomwheels, who cares? you only need to get close not on them. and if they're spending time avoiding your doomwheels then their not spending time using those monsters.
the hell pit is worth FAR more points than you pay for it. |
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| Rakashani | 17th January 2011 - 07:54 PM Post #15 |
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Warlord
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As regards the OP's question... It's the equivalent of asking Steak or Pine Timbers? One is excellent when making a meal, the other is great when building a house. What do you want to *do* with your rare choice? What problems does the rest of your list have that you need to fix? The Doomwheel is great for menacing multi-wound units and creatures. It's much less useful (although not a rock by any means) in melee combat. The HPA is a marvelous threat to rank and file units like Infantry and some Monstrous Infantry but is more a wash against other monsters and usually he costs more so it's not an efficient use for him. Both draw shooting and magic in proportion to how scared your enemy is that they'll wreck his list. |
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