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Miscellaneous Tactical Advice; Need help against a variety of enemies
Topic Started: 12th January 2011 - 08:34 PM (563 Views)
Gixit
Stormvermin
Hello! Well, I'm looking for tactical advice for upcoming battles ("Upcoming" might be a bit long term, so I can let this run for a while), as I and 3 other players are all picking up Warhammer at the same time. Naturally, I'm going for Skaven myself. Before going on, my list:

2000pts (as all are)
Lords
General: Grey Seer on Screaming Bell. Skalm, Dispel Scroll. Iron-curse icon is a maybe, it keeps dropping in and out based on point calculations.

Heroes
Cheiftain BSB with Storm Banner (In bell unit)
Warlock Engineer Level 2 with Warp-Energy Condenser and Doomrocket. (In Clanrats)

Core
40x Clanrats with Shields and Full Command pushing the Screaming Bell
60x other clanrats with Shields (Currently 2 units of 30, one with the Engineer)
90x Skavenslaves (Currently, 3 units of 30)

Special
10x Poisoned Wind Globradiers (2 groups of 5)

Rare
2x Doomwheel
2x Warp-lightning Cannon

I don't want to run the Abomination because I've heard enough mentions of losing friends over the thing. Same with Power Scroll on the Seer

My opponents

Vampire counts, running a vampire lord, vampire, necromancer, units of 10 skeletons with full command, units of 20 zombies, and miscellaneous others (4 blood knights and some fell bats, I think)

Empire: Currently looking to be using Balthasar Gelt which lets him take lots of flagellants as core, but might go with Karl Franz on something other than Deathclaw instead. Certainly wants to use flagellants, and is almost certainally running a steam tank. This list is the scary one, as it will almost certainly include a balance of everything: Calvary, infantry, shooting, magic, war machines, even a monster (the tank, basically).

Dark Elves: This player will usually be my ally for 2-on-2, but I'll probably end up against this army as well. Dreadlord on black dragon general, units of 10 all around except where noted for other forces: 2 repeater crossbowmen units, 2 corsair units, 2 black guard units (ow!), 2 shade units (of 5), 2 witch elf units (of 5). A pair of reaper bolt throwers, and a hydra.


My questions:
1) I'm rather worried about empire. multiple 20-strong units of flagellants seems a high probability and also quite intimidating. I also have heard nasty things about the Steam Tank. Any advice to deal with these? Should I even be worried?
2) Any general advice on how to deploy the miscellaneous core troops? For instance, clanrats in 2 30 groups or one 60 group since I don;t have weapon teams right now? Slaves in 2 45's, 3 30's, or 3 20's and a 30? some other formation?
3) Does anyone have experience fighting WITH dark elves?
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Chitterfitz
Warlord
Clanrats work best in multiple groups it gives your opponent a harder time to wipe them from teh table. ( Now that you need to completely wipe out units to get points) Its beneficial to have multiple troop units of the same point value, forcing your opponent to divide his attentions and thin out his offensive power.

I find slaves in larger blocks work as well to tie up units for multiple turns and for thier low point cost its not a bad tactic cause you won't gie up a lot of points. However lately i've been hearing, and myself trying to use them to redirect opponents forces away from the center of fighting, it doesn't always work now that people can free reform at the end but having a small group to harass flanks is nice.

As for fighting with DE, me and my friend had a team idea for him doing DE trying to get okkams mind razor and using it on clanrats, or plague monks. Also i might try to give him the center of the board and you hang out on the outside center area screening his black guard with slaves and charging out of their way when you can.

Wouldn't really be to worried about empire ( own personal experience) if you can figure out their tricks you can usually shut them down. One thing my friend enjoys doing is taking pistoliers and vangarding them then marching them into your deployment zone turn one and unloading. To deal with the Flagellants if i remeber right they have no saves and are only T3 and WS2 put your slaves against them and they can kill a few and tie them up.

I'd say try the HPA before you write it off, my gaming group doesn't mind the thing at all, if your worried about upsetting your friends then just make two seperate lists one with and one without, ask your friends if its ok if you field it and if they say no then field the one without.

I might try to find a way to fit an Eng. with a magic resist token in the list put him in the Screaming bell unit to give them a 2-4+ save against magic, its the only thing really in your list to direct powerful spells at, with your BSB and General in that unit.
Looking for the Limited Edition Skaven Standard Bearer. PM if you know where i can get one.
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reddogfish77
Grey Seer
the screaming bell is MR2 as is... dont worry about that and the grey seer and bell will have a 2+ ward save against magic.

steam tank is a bit of an issue and if you are likely to face empire and that often its worth taking the brass orb and possibly even going ruin over plague.

abomb is great and should not be discounted... you will face plenty of crap from the vampire player in so far as WS7 ghouls with poison and multiple attacks or WS7 grave guard which will hit on 2s and have killing blow.

steam tank is a monster and generally harder to kill than the abomb and DE have hydras...

dont hamstring yourself before you see the armies they start taking.

i would try to take units of 50 slaves at least... unless they are just there to distract... flaggelents arent that bad... nothing a swarm of slaves with death frenzy and spears wont take care of.

it is worth taking some plague monks or stormvermin with the sotrm banner and the banner of the underempire on the BSB in the bell unit.



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Skirr The Tinkerer
Tinkering... BOOM!
reddogfish77
Jan 13 2011, 08:36 AM
the screaming bell is MR2 as is... dont worry about that and the grey seer and bell will have a 2+ ward save against magic.


the grey seer will have a 5+ save against magic not a 2+. with magic resistance you take the number away from 7 essentially, so something with mr1 would have a 6+ and mr3 a 4+ etc.
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WarpTyrant
Clanrat
Skirr The Tinkerer
Jan 13 2011, 09:13 AM
reddogfish77
Jan 13 2011, 08:36 AM
the screaming bell is MR2 as is... dont worry about that and the grey seer and bell will have a 2+ ward save against magic.


the grey seer will have a 5+ save against magic not a 2+. with magic resistance you take the number away from 7 essentially, so something with mr1 would have a 6+ and mr3 a 4+ etc.

IIRC both the bell and the seer get a 4+ ward from the bell. Add to that the 2 MR and it totals to a 2+ against magic.
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Shaldier
Member Avatar


Magic is proably going to be your best bet against those pesky man things. I've been playing a few games against my friends empire army recently and I've found that small units of 20 are easy prey for the 13th spell and scorch. These two spells will blow large chunks out of those low armour save flagllants and normally you can kill the majority of those units with one spell to each. I know this won't stop them dead but your large units of clanrats should just roll over them. I would also suggest hunting down the steam tank with those two doomwheels. WHat I would be worried about is if he starts taking hell blaster volley guns and hell storm rocket batteries. If he goes down that route I would suggest you net yourself some gutter runs some time soon. I know it looks like he won't take many war machines like those but its a big tempatation and he might swing that way soon.

Next dark elves. What you'll want to do is use those doomwheels to roll up and down his battle line. They'll be able to kick out plenty of fire power and magic and will out class nearly all your combat units. But they have low toughness and high points cost so you should look to hit his units hard and fast.

Sorry but I know little about vampire counts so I can't help you there. Good luck!
*Rolls dice* What? misfire?! *blown half way across the room by the subsequent explosion*
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Mospaeda


As a long time Empire player, I'd thought I'd chime in.

He can only count one unit of Flagellants as core, and that's if he is also fielding a Warrior Priest or Arch Lector. There's also a cap on the amount in each unit, 30 I believe.

Flagellants die in droves to any kind of shooting /spells and if you're worried much about them, I'd recommend just shooting them back to Sigmar come.
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