Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Add Reply
Magic resistance; Screaming bell magic resistance
Topic Started: 10th January 2011 - 08:37 PM (612 Views)
FinaGlista
Clanrat
Hello, i am skaven beginer:)
I would like to ask one thing, regarding Magic resistance and screaming bell, as I am told: hero with magic resistance "share" his magic resistance with whole unit he joins, is it the same with Screaming bell and his +2 magic resistance?
THX for answer/s.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Scarr, Reincarnated
Member Avatar
11th creator of the Skaven Achievements. Binder of IceAc.
Yes it is the same for any magic resistance :D

scarr
The Pox on you, AND your kind!

Player of games, watcher of games, gamer of plays.


Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Warlock Matik
Member Avatar
(Z–>)90º – (E–N²W)90ºt = 1

There's a bit of debate going on about it, but I think the general consensus is that it does.
Posted ImagePosted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dalamar
Clanrat
Are you sure? I read in the skaven FAQ that the bell/furnace and its pushing unit are considered two separate units (they can be targetted separately for example)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
FinaGlista
Clanrat
Would be nice if somene can answer to this question :)?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
reddogfish77
Grey Seer
imagine this... a guy on horseback leading a unit of foot troops has a magic resistence.

can the unit use it... of course... can the horseman be targetted. yes.

that answer your q.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
tbone
Member Avatar
Grey Seer
FinaGlista
Jan 11 2011, 11:49 AM
Would be nice if somene can answer to this question :)?

I don't think you are going to get a 100% percent reliable answer as having a unit inside of an another unit, and how that relates to magic resistance isn't covered in the rules. Now I think most skaven players would say that the unit pushing the bell gets magic resistance, but some could make the argument that it doesn't, as a unit cannot transfer magic resistance to another unit.

Drawing a parallel between magic resistance and the unbreakable rule: The bell specifically says that the unit pushing it is unbreakable, but fails at saying anything magic resistance and the unit pushing it.

On the other side:
"Characters that join units" (the gray seer is "joining" the unit pushing the bell) provide magic resistance to the whole unit.

Honestly, I could go either way. Just another thing to add to GW unanswerd FAQ list.
Tbone's Nasty Rats
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
CapAmr05
Member Avatar


Shared magic resistance is covered in the rule books (both 7th & 8th); Per the rules magic resistance is shared in a collective (unless it specifically says it does not). The Bell's description does not need to say it affords a special ability to the unit when that information is directly covered in the BRB;

However, the Bell's description does need to say it afforded unbreakability, because there is no previous rule in the rule book that allows this transference. Remember one of the main arguments for bell/furnace deployment in 7th edition once the character died was that the bell didn't make the unit unbreakable because no wording was present and thus would be booted. The FAQ's covered this by ammending the text to say unbreakability is afforded to the rider and the unit.

Further, the argument on 'seperation' is fruitless, technically all characters are considered individual units, even when housed in a larger unit. There are just targeting restrictions in the main rules that better protect them, these are not afforded to the bell based on the bells specific wording in the army book.

The Bell's description of it being a 'seperate unit' is strictly for the purposes of shooting/targeting [in olden days it was to keep people from benefiting by rolling a cannonball/ single bolt through the bell and the clanrats in the same shot]; they do not function or even count as 'seperate' units in any other way; combat res is calculated against the whole (not vs the unit & vs the bell) and movements happen as one (one does not move then the other; it's simultaneous).

Any time there is a divergence in the main rules it will/should be explained in the individual armybooks; if no such explanation exists then the main rules is what we have to go on. In the main rules if one part of a 'unit' has MR; the entire unit benefits from that MR.

Yes; the Bell's MR is afforded to the bell itself, the seer, the pushing unit, and any other characters that may be housed within the pushing unit.

--Cap
Lonewolf Grand Tournament April 28-30

The Beer Phase Podcast

Clan Skrittar
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
tbone
Member Avatar
Grey Seer
CapAmr05
Jan 11 2011, 03:41 PM

Further, the argument on 'seperation' is fruitless, technically all characters are considered individual units, even when housed in a larger unit.

I looked around. Where did you find this technicality? The only thing I found is that Lone Characters are considered individual units, nothing about characters that 'join' units.
Tbone's Nasty Rats
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
CapAmr05
Member Avatar


Characters are themselves considered individual units, they don't really lose that status when they join a unit (although logically they are no longer 'individual' in the truest sense). They 'essentially' become a unit of 1 within another unit. They don't meld into the collective (like the regular joes), they still retain their unique traits, abilities and function, all the while gaining rule specific proteciton within the larger mass.

I'm not saying characters in units aren't 'part of the unit'; I'm saying that while part of the unit they too are also their own unit, thus why certain spells, shots, or effects can still snipe them specifically, even though they're in the unit.

--Cap
Lonewolf Grand Tournament April 28-30

The Beer Phase Podcast

Clan Skrittar
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
tbone
Member Avatar
Grey Seer
I guess I don't see it the same.

If I follow that logic, then when a comet of casandora comes down right upon a character inside a unit, then both the RnF unit and the character get hit, as they are both units within the comets range.

Now, I think the distinction about the bell being a separate unit would apply here in this example. Both the screaming bell unit (the seer and bell itself), and the unit pushing the bell, would be hit by the comet.

I think considering characters inside units to be units themselves is somewhat confusing, and raises many other questions, such as the comet or passing plague from a unit to a character inside the same unit.
Tbone's Nasty Rats
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
CapAmr05
Member Avatar


Quote:
 
If I follow that logic, then when a comet of casandora comes down right upon a character inside a unit, then both the RnF unit and the character get hit, as they are both units within the comets range.


Yes, they are both hit, but Characters have the benefit of targeting rules prescribed for them in the BRB that dictate how to deceminate hits. Based on the rules we know that hits are dealt at the unit level. Based on the rules we know that since the character is within the unit he does not have to worry about being hit individually.


Quote:
 
Now, I think the distinction about the bell being a separate unit would apply here in this example. Both the screaming bell unit (the seer and bell itself), and the unit pushing the bell, would be hit by the comet.


Correct; but only because the Bell istelf has that dictacted in its targeting rules. Other than that a Grey Seer on a Bell is no different than any other mounted hero in a unit (i.e. a compartmentalized unit within a unit).

Quote:
 
I think considering characters inside units to be units themselves is somewhat confusing, and raises many other questions, such as the comet or passing plague from a unit to a character inside the same unit.


You're over thinking it, it's a generaliztion. There's a set of rules that allows us the benefit of knowing what will or won't happen to characters within units when calamity strikes; and how to divy those hits out.

The whole reason I started this arch was to challenge the notion that the bell is somehow an entirely separate unit, it still recieves the benefits of being part of the bigger unit (when really all characters are), the bell just doesn't get the benefit of all the BRB protections because of the Bell's specific targeting rules. The fact that the bell can be targeted separate from the unit, does not mean Magic Resistance can't be shared from one to the other.

--Cap
Lonewolf Grand Tournament April 28-30

The Beer Phase Podcast

Clan Skrittar
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
tbone
Member Avatar
Grey Seer
IDK, maybe your right Cap, maybe I am over thinking it. I guess I've never thought of characters inside units as units themselves.
Tbone's Nasty Rats
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
CapAmr05
Member Avatar


Lol; admittedly, it is a kind of backwards way of looking at grouping dynamics.

:wacko:

Just throwing another perspective on the pile.

--Cap
Lonewolf Grand Tournament April 28-30

The Beer Phase Podcast

Clan Skrittar
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
« Previous Topic · Fantasy Battles Rules Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply