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rule question: flank charge
Topic Started: 9th January 2011 - 10:43 AM (602 Views)
chewii


Yesterday me and a friend where playing a warhammer match where i flanked whit my abomb his unit of saurusblok of 40ish like this

SSSSSS Abomb
SSSSSS Abomb
SSSSSS
SSSSSS
SSSSSS
SSSSSS
SSSSSS


after 1 round of combat it was like this

--------- Abomb
--------- Abomb

SSSSSS
SSSSSS
SSSSSS
SSSSSS


I won the combat but he was still steadfast coldblooded and stayed where he was.
and then he told me the combat was over since we aint in base contact any more.

so my questino is was this correct?was the combat over?

if so, if you rear charge and kill 1-2 ranks don't we have the same situation?
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Chitterfitz
Warlord
Combat would not be over until either the Lizzies were dead or fleeing or vise versa for the Abombs. What would happen in this situation is the unit that would need to move less would have to to maximize models in base to base.

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CapAmr05
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Your opponent neglected to "step forward" with his unit. While casualties in combat do occur against the front rank, models in the later part of the unit step up to take their spot, so there will always be a front (flank/rear) rank (depending on where the combat is happening from). He played it wrong.

As the previous poster stated that combat would not be finished until all the lizardmen were wiped out, the abom was wiped out, or one of them broke from combat.

--Cap
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Yobtar
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First off if you hit him in the flank of his unit he didnt have any rank bonus and loses all the benefits of having rank bonus. Also you get the +1 CR for flanking.

Second casualties are removed from the rear of combat which would be the rank (which was originally a file before the charge) farthest away from the Abom. So even after casualties were removed the Lizzy unit would still be in hand to hand combat with the Abom.

So to use your example of 10 Saurus dead after one round of combat the resulting formation of combat would look like this (with the underscores the removed casualties):

__SSSS
_SSSSS Abomb
_SSSSS Abomb
_SSSSS
_SSSSS
__SSSS
__SSSS

Note that the Abom has been positioned to maximize the number of models in combat
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CapAmr05
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Quote:
 
First off if you hit him in the flank of his unit he didnt have any rank bonus and loses all the benefits of having rank bonus.


An Abom no longer breaks ranks.

--Cap
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Scarr, Reincarnated
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Yobtar
Jan 9 2011, 08:36 PM
First off if you hit him in the flank of his unit he didnt have any rank bonus and loses all the benefits of having rank bonus.

You need two ranks of 5 or more to "disrupt" the unit and remove it's rank bonus. It is still steadfast.

I think you would nudge the HPA a few inches so it touched the unit again, as per the multiple combat things.

scarr
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Yobtar
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CapAmr05
Jan 9 2011, 02:43 PM
Quote:
 
First off if you hit him in the flank of his unit he didnt have any rank bonus and loses all the benefits of having rank bonus.


An Abom no longer breaks ranks.

--Cap

Doh,! You are correct ignore the negate ranks part of my post.
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CapAmr05
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lol, no sweat; I think we're all still having 7th edition flashbacks.

--Cap
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Halceon
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Theoretical warp-physicist
Also, I doubt that you'd remove the models furthest from the combat. The rear rank remains the rear rank until the charged sauri manage a combat reform and turn to face you. I'm guessing this would call for a nudge from the abomination as per the shrinking units rule. Though it states that you nudge by the minimal amount possible, thus getting some pretty good conditions - corner to corner contact with a single saurus.
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Clanlord Trask
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Quiet, I'm plotting.

I am with Halecon, casualtie are removed from the back rank, not the opposite row of models to the combat. If that was the case, then imagine if the Sauruses were 10 models deep. On the flank charge they would get the Horde rule, more powerful defending against a flank attack than a frontal attack!
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Chitterfitz
Warlord
You can only get the horde rule if it is in the front. If your charged in the flank you lose almost all your bonuses, No supporting attacks ( you still get step up) No parry save.

It would look like this before combat The V is the direction of the unit

SSSSS Abomb
SSSSS Abomb
SSSSS
SSSSS
SSSSS
V

Like this after wards if you did ten wounds, and if you moved the units together. The slashes are casualties.

--------
--------
SSSSS Abomb
SSSSS Abomb
SSSSS
V
Which ever unit would need to move the least to remain in base contact would move. (At my group we just move both units an equal distance)
If your opponent wanted to turn to face you he would have to pass a leadership test counting the combat Res. to turn to face. if not then you are still on the flank.
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Clanlord Trask
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Quiet, I'm plotting.

Exactally, thats my point. The unit has a defined front, side, rear. Casualties come from the back rank, not the opposite side of the combat as was being argued. Doing that effectively spins the rank facing instantly 90 degrees, meaning if this was the rule and the unit was 10 wide then it would suddenly get Horde. Because the side is now the front.

But we all know better, that this isn't the case.
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Yobtar
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Clanlord Trask
Jan 9 2011, 06:32 PM
Exactally, thats my point. The unit has a defined front, side, rear. Casualties come from the back rank, not the opposite side of the combat as was being argued. Doing that effectively spins the rank facing instantly 90 degrees, meaning if this was the rule and the unit was 10 wide then it would suddenly get Horde. Because the side is now the front.

But we all know better, that this isn't the case.

I apologize if my description of where casualties come from was misleading. I surely wasnt saying that they come from the opposite side of the combat, just that the description given by the OP was off and should not result in both units being out of combat.
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Boone
Chieftain
I always thought it was

CMSSS ABOMB
SSSSS ABOMB
SSSSS
SSSSS
SSSSS


then
CMSSS ABOMB
SSSSS ABOMB
SSSSS
xxxxx
xxxxx

am I wrong on this?

boone
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Chitterfitz
Warlord
I don't think so that looks exactly like my Description except upside down.
As far as i see it is correct. Unless someone sees something i don't
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