| first games with the skaven and a call for help | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 8th January 2011 - 09:25 PM (366 Views) | |
| Nimnod | 8th January 2011 - 09:25 PM Post #1 |
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Alright so i started wfb a while ago with some warriors of chaos but found them to be kinda one dimensional and wanted something with a big more variety and something that that didnt feel like an auto win against some armies so i picked up some rats. Well i just got my first two games with them yesterday and i have to say that they are definitely harder to play than WoC, but much more fun. My two games were against lizards and i really wont go into detail on the first game, except to say that i made a big mistake putting my grey seer and bsb in the same unit, they both got taken out on lizard turn one by the dwellers below and it was all down hill from there. I then changed a few minor things on my list and we played again, i still lost but it was a much closer game. I was hoping for a little insight on the rats and my new nemesis lizardmen so ill post my list and his to the best of my recollection and the ask a few questions and make a few observations. My list 2000 pts Grey seer dispel scroll, talisman of preservation and warp energy condenser Chieftain Bsb hand weapon shield dragon helm Plague priest lv 2, flail, talisman of endurance, furnace Warlock engineer doom rocket warlock engineer brass orb slaves x50 musician slaves x 50 musician clan rats x25 full command hand weapon shield clan rats x 25 full command hand weapon shield poison wind mortars x2 stormvermin x20 full command (originally held storm banner but in the first game i really wasnt impressed with his shooting so i removed it for the second) plague monks x35 full command plague banner doom wheel His list i dont know the names of his items so ill just describe the effects best as possible slan mage priest 2+ward,l reroll miscasts, enemy wizard with 24 inches drops 6s from casting rolls and ethereal and the lore of life temple guard x20 saurus warriors x20 20 skinks with 2 kroxigores 7 cold one riders stegidon ancient (i think, the one with the nasty blow pipes and the skinks on the back) and that was it i think for my observations: 1 the furnace is awesome, this thing took a front charge from the saurus warriors, templer guard and a rear charge from a weakened cold one rider unit. it held them there for a while and then broke them all (side note by the time i broke them i didnt have any plague monks left so it wasnt going anywhere) 2 Cracks call is pure gold against lizardmen enough said. 3. i really like the poison wind mortars against them, especially when they are toughness 8 because of the lore of life. 4. lore of life sucks 5. something i realized only after our games, the mage priest is considered just regular infantry so can be hit with the 13th. i was assured that he was monsterus infantry so was immune all the people who said so have been playing alot longer than i so i had no reason to doubt them questions 1 i dont know if it has been in any errata but what happens when a plague furnace is is hit with the dwellers below? does it too make the strength test? 2 if a plague furnace was hit with a spell like that or any one that said you are not allowed any kind of save, then how is its innate magic resistance worked out? 3. and the one you all knew was coming. what can i change to be more effective against the lizards or just in general? thanks for any help or insight you can give. |
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| Warlock Matik | 8th January 2011 - 09:49 PM Post #2 |
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(Z–>)90º – (E–N²W)90ºt = 1
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Yep, life slann can be really bad. I see you took the brass orb, did it work for you? For your questions: 1) I believe you make one str test on the highest value (the furnace's) and if you fail the whole thing goes. Harsh, but at least you're only failing on 6's. 2) The magic resistance won't kick in since it just provides a ward save against wounds caused by spells. Dwellers below and company just remove the models without causing wounds. 3) I'll assume that using the power scroll is taboo. Have you considered mounting the seer on a bell? It's expensive but it makes you str 5 for Dwellers below and if you get the result that wounds all T7+ models and that life spell is in play you just wipe the unit off the board, might make him reconsider using life I think the condenser is wasted on the seer, it's better on a warlock since you can guarantee warp lightning and the extra power die is added to the pool anyway. Oh, and it's illegal with the dispel scroll anyway, they're both arcane so he can have one or the other. Your overall list looks fairly solid, keep plugging away at it and it'll pay off eventually, especially now that you know you can turn his toad into a rat
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| stormtruperTK41 | 8th January 2011 - 10:32 PM Post #3 |
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Clanrat
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Well I myself am also new to Skaven but I have played the Lizzies for quiet a while so I can give you some insight that way. Try to get the feed back scroll in there if you can. Then wait for the slann to cast some beefy spell with a large amount of dice then pull the scroll on him and it should do quite o bit of damage, if your lucky it will pop him. Against this list I feel you would benefit from some jezzails since they would do unreasonably well at taking down the steggie fast and probably casue an issue for the knights as well. And WFTs would eat that unit of skinks and krox for breakfast. Once you take out those three units (Skinks w/ krox, steggie, and riders) you should gain control of the field with speed and out-maneuvering. If it HAS to come down to combat try to lock down the steggie and temple gaurd while dealing with the there units then when they are dead deal with them by tossing alot of units at them at once. Hoped that helps
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| turmi110 | 8th January 2011 - 10:39 PM Post #4 |
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Chieftain
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He has a defensive geared slann, in a temple guard bunker. That is the worst slann setup I've seen. Rerolling miscasts isn't worth the 50 points he spends on it, especially when he can get an item that can transfer the miscast to one of your wizards. Also with the lore of life throne of vines spell, he gets a 2+ 'miscast save' while its active. Sounds like a lot of redundancy in his setup. You should count yourself lucky he wasn't a loremaster in the lore of life, and getting one extra dice per spell cast. Amongst all the lizard players I've met and talked to, they don't take a slann without the extra dice and most take loremaster too. Lore of life is the most common lore for lizards, for good reason as I'm sure you're now aware. Oh and that slanns 2+ ward is only for ranged attacks. Not like it matters much, you have to carve through all the temple guard to reach him in CC to bypass it, or he has to fail a look out sir or sniped in order for the frog to even need to take a ward save. The 'enemy wizard drops 6' ability makes it near impossible to cast the dreaded 13th on his temple guard unit without you using a power scroll. So if you want to turn the slann into a rat, either pick up this scroll, or sit your seer within 24 inches of the front of his temple guard, but more than 24 inches away from the slann, there is a one inch sweet spot due to the rank of TG in front of the slann. Take the bell for a ride if lore of life is giving you trouble. As mentioned, protects your seer from dwellers, and if he doesn't know skaven and the bell well enough, he might make the mistake of making one of his units T8, so your bell can potentially wipe out that whole unit. About 40% of his entire armies points is in that slann and TG bunker. If you destroy that, the game is yours. A well placed brass orb can annihilate a decent chunk of that unit in one blast, and if his slann does fail his look out sir test, there is no ward saves allowed against the orb, but don't count on that happening, just be happy enough destroying half his TG bunker. |
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| Nimnod | 8th January 2011 - 11:24 PM Post #5 |
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thanks for the replies so far! the bell is on my list of must gets, thats the model the drew me towards the skaven in the first place, my birthday is later this month and i have been dropping hints to my girl for a while so ill hold out for it till then. and i feel i should say something about the slann set up. after the game he and i talked about it cause i was confused about the reroll miscasts thing as well and he told me he took it to make the slann more pricey so he could reach 2000 points. now why he didnt the cupped hands item i dont know but i wasnt going to bring it up. also i came up with another question. how well do you think that a HPA would preform against lizards. My LGS owner was nice enough to let me crack the store preview copy to assemble and paint it for the stores display case, but im sure he would let me play with it too. and for those who havent gotten to see the kit yet that thing is crazy but kinda a complicated kit too, by far the most complicated GW kit i have assembled yet. so if i was to include that as well what do you think could get cut to put him in? the stormvermin are first on my list of cuts, i really wasnt very impressed by them but what else? @warlock matik: yeah i just threw the condenser on the seer on the fly i didnt even think about the two arcane items. and i can really see why you think its wasted on the seer so i probably wont be doing that again. @stormtruper: the feedback scroll isnt something i had even considered. i just may have to give that a try. but for now i think that ill pass on the jezzails at rat 3 i just dont see them being too useful, of course the price tag doesnt help matters. |
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| stormtruperTK41 | 9th January 2011 - 12:31 AM Post #6 |
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Clanrat
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Sorry what is "rat 3"? |
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| Nimnod | 9th January 2011 - 12:47 AM Post #7 |
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Heh oops... I meant bs. RAT is Warmachine's balistic skill, I guess its kinda obvious, which game I play more. |
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| Grey Seer Exahm | 9th January 2011 - 01:43 AM Post #8 |
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Gribbly
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You need more clanrats. Personally, I never run either in units of less than 40 rats. Also, drop the stormvermin, again, maybe replace them with another Doomwheel or a WLC. Honestly, I'm not convinced by weapons teams, I've not had much luck with them, so maybe consider dropping them, but it depends on how well you personally do with them. |
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| reddogfish77 | 9th January 2011 - 06:35 AM Post #9 |
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Grey Seer
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well think of it like this... i have had a abomb destoy a unit of temple and break a steg at the same time... that was in 7th... but now he is even more damaging with impact hits and thunder stomp... he will regret taking lore of life if you field two of these babies but at the same time one will provide a great boost to your combat ability whilst not taking away from anything else. i would prob drop the stormvermin... S4 is doing nothing to lizzies tough hide and armour. WLC worth it. DW worth it and even rat ogres are worth it... higher initiative set them up opposite his cav and they should be gone in a turn. as mentioned a bell would really put a dampner on his T8 butt. you really need to get value for money from your skaven when playing lizzes because they really almost never run. doom rocket is great and versitle... meaning you can aim it at temple guard or skinks and reliably kill more than it cost you. the only thing you really have to worry about is his temple guard unit. and while tough they are still vulnerable. take heart from know every wound to that unit is 17 pts worth... get it into combat with an abomb so he cant target it and slaves so they go no where. the abomb should do about 5 or more wounds a round so in two turns if it survives his unit should be gone. accentuate this by softening them up with mortars... honestly your clanrats units sizes are fine... mostly because you dont want them to see combat... This depends what you take 1) try to line up your ogres across from his cav... if he is fielding 7 i would say 4 ogres are enough with 2 PM. 2)target the skinks and krox unit with plague or... the stegadon... like baygon... kills skinks fast. a couple of 5 man PCBs on either flank would prob halve that unit of saurus and your softer units can finish the deal. everything else can concentrate on the temple guard... lts face it without an unlcuky roll his slann is going nowhere until they are gone. as i said abomb, tarpit and hit with anything else you got. if something else is giving you trouble... zap it with magic or WLC if you have it. dont worry bout feedback scroll he has too many wounds for it to bother him. |
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I think the condenser is wasted on the seer, it's better on a warlock since you can guarantee warp lightning and the extra power die is added to the pool anyway. Oh, and it's illegal with the dispel scroll anyway, they're both arcane so he can have one or the other. Your overall list looks fairly solid, keep plugging away at it and it'll pay off eventually, especially now that you know you can turn his toad into a rat 
