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Master Moulders and Verminous Valour; Unclear rules
Topic Started: 7th January 2011 - 06:26 PM (298 Views)
bunny-summers
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Hi, I'm a new player to Fantasy and have a question that relates to Master Moulders and the Verminous Valour special rule.

MMs have VV despite being champions, which in theory allows them to use their Ld value even if retired from a challenge. However the most recent errata states that VV comes into play when characters or champions are moved to the rear "as normal" - this seems a contradiction, since if the situation is "as normal" then champions are never allowed to be sent to the back for refusing a challenge.

So how does VV work in this case? Is it simply saying that MMs are in fact allowed to be chosen by the challenger to retire as if they were characters, and thus get sent to the back (where they can use their Ld)? If not, and they are still treated as champions and thus unable to be chosen to retire ("as normal"), what does the rule actually achieve? Should MM even have verminous valour in 8th edition? Is the errata just badly worded?

...We argued this for over half an hour in a recent game and then took the question to a GW store manager who was likewise unable to give a satisfactory answer. Plenty of unsatisfactory RAI interpretation abounds, but not much RAW explanation. It would be nice to hear the ruling from the point of view of experienced Skaven players.

Thanks.
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Dalamar
Clanrat
They're champions, so they can freely refuse challenge and don't go back in ranks...

Meaning Verminous Valor is wasted on them as their Ld can still be used (although they still are in danger of being killed in front rank)
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ratwhowouldbeking
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Clanrat
As above.

Champions have the capability to accept challenges, but don't have to. Champions must also always be in the front rank. They may have the Verminous Valour rule but they have no means to make use of it.
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bunny-summers
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Thank you! This is what we thought as the special rule seemed a bit pointless as it doesn't do anything. Maybe they meant to errata this rule out but forgot?!
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Yobtar
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Grey Seer - Summoner of Verminlords
Now I am confused as the FAQ states:

Page 33 – Verminous Valour
Change the second paragraph to “If a Skaven player refuses a
challenge, a Skaven character or champion is placed in the back
rank as normal and may not attack, but the unit may still use
the model’s Leadership value.”

According to the FAQ your opponent can choose to send Skaven champions to the back even though this is in complete contradiction to all the other armies whose champions cannot be chosen to go to the back rank.
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How can we have a 9 page FAQ?
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