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General Tips for a New Rat; A Beggar Who Wants to Be A Chooser
Topic Started: 6th January 2011 - 07:26 AM (678 Views)
stormtruperTK41
Clanrat
Hey all, this is my first time posting here. I have read around the site a little and decided to seek some specific help. I have played warhammer since the 6th edition using O&G and Lizzies. Years ago I wanted to start up Skaven but after painting some clanrats I decided that their models were too frustratingly ugly to deal with (knowing I would need a lot of them).

Here I stand now with a new range of models and my first dive into Skaven. As a side note I have only played a couple games with the 8th edition rules so I am still rusty in keeping them in mind.

My collection consists of the island of blood set, some blisters, and the Skaven battalion box set. However my battalion box was a bit of a screw up and only gave my 20 clanrats rather than 40, and gave me 4 rat ogres, 12 giant rats, and 4 packmasters instead of 2, 6, and 2 respectivly (perhaps a sign from the great horned rat to pay tribute to clan moulder).

In short I have: 2 warlock engineers, chieftain/warlord, assassin, 20 clan rats, 40 clan rats, PWM, 2 WFT, 1 rattling gun, 12 giant rats, 6 rat ogres, 6 jezzails, 20 plague monks, WLC.

Can the more treacherous rats among you give me some good tips and pointers on playing this hilariously lethal army?

However, a few things to keep in mind: Coming from a heavy O&G back ground I am familiar with things not going to plan, and I am not demoralized by losing due to army quirks.
Secondly, from reading on this site it is my understanding that what is favored are large units of slaves to muck up enemy units while DWs and A-bombs hit the side.....I don't like that notion because it seems boring. If I am gonna win i want to have fun doing it, so lets hear some dirty tactics and tricks that don't revolve around 50 man blocks of slaves with a BSB near by....

THANKS!
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Kritch Wormtail
Clanrat
wow the great horned one has favoured clan moulder, i think you should go with clan moulder. btw the way the battalion should give 3 not 2 packmasters.

so for tactics, hmmmm.... squeek- squeeek. ah yes.

well im quite new as well and play against lizzies but something i found works well, first get a block of 6 Rogres and a large block of giant rats (take the small ones of the plague monks sprue), casting death frenzy on the giant rats can be useful but not necassery. use giant rats to hold enemies in place, they are basically low point cost clanrats and are easy to paint. use the Rogres to secure flanks as you are hitting with 4 x 6 + 1 + 3 stomps, so pretty good giving you 19 attacks and 3 stomps, use other units to secure flanks aswell. also skaven being a fast race are very good at flanking and is vital to gain the upperhand in combat. that brings me to my next point. 20 clanrats cannot take down 18 lizardmen. meaning that flanking and multiple combats are needed if youur going to have any chance of breaking thier units. jezzails. any solo characters they have, kill them. first priority, some empire players field things like bright wizards solo quite often, just kill it, 2 wounds max. we have 32" range, go for it. your wft are great anything they touch will burn, put them with weaker units of yours that way if they do blow up it aint a big loss. you have a small problem, since your warlock engineers cannot lead the army, that falls on your chieftain/ warlord to lead. but you need a bsb, it is imperative that you do as the re roll is godly for skaven, so you need to spend £8.50, or ebay trawl and get your self a new chieftain, i would suggest the gw model known just as skaven warlord, with the dwarf head, or u could convert but thats up to u.

emal me if u need more tactics.

kritch
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Rattarsed


Kritch Wormtail
Jan 6 2011, 09:57 AM

since your warlock engineers cannot lead the army, that falls on your chieftain/ warlord to lead.

Warlock Engineers can lead your army its just not ideal as the LD is not as good. Its only assassins that can't lead your army.
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razaan
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Chieftain
Kritch Wormtail
Jan 6 2011, 04:57 AM
use the Rogres to secure flanks as you are hitting with 4 x 6 + 1 + 3 stomps, so pretty good giving you 19 attacks and 3 stomps

If you are running 2 ranks of 3, the second rank is capped at 3 attacks each.

A unit of 3 Rat Ogres, in two ranks of 3 with a master-bred would have:

1 x 5 = 5 (Master Bred)
2 x 4 = 8 (Rest of Front Row)
3 x 3 = 9 (Supporting Attacks)

So you'd have:
5 attacks at Str 5 and Initiative 5 and WS 4
17 attacks at Str 5 and Initiative 4 and WS 3
3 Stomps at the end of the combat round.
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stormtruperTK41
Clanrat
Thanks for the quick reply. I had not thought of using the little rats on the plague monk sprue to make more giant rats! I guess I will need another chieftain model, but in the mean time I can use my assassin model as a chieftain and my other chieftain model is the one from the island of blood set, so he looks like he has a BSB of sorts on his back.

My first game with my chittering hoard will be 1500pts against a buddy of mine who just started a VC army.

I welcome more general tips and tricks as well as pointers against VC.

The underempire prevails.
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stormtruperTK41
Clanrat
Just saw that new post as well, what are thoughts on using Gnawtooth with a unit of rat ogres? I was considering it for that first game.

Any mutate result rolled would be good (which is odd for Skaven. I kept looking for the result that makes the beast eat him or something), but regen would be epic, or an extra attack each would bring them from hitting like a truck to hitting like a train...
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Kritch Wormtail
Clanrat
Rattarsed
Jan 6 2011, 10:51 AM
Kritch Wormtail
Jan 6 2011, 09:57 AM

since your warlock engineers cannot lead the army, that falls on your chieftain/ warlord to lead.

Warlock Engineers can lead your army its just not ideal as the LD is not as good. Its only assassins that can't lead your army.

soz bout that forgot.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

Hmmmm VAmpire counts.... the truly most nasty army.

Definitely take Gnawtooth. If your going for a theme army he works fine and he is also the only way to really make rat ogres pay for their cost. (if you take him make one of the 6 master breed)

Take the jezzails, perhaps you'll get lucky and your opponent will ignore them. they make great vargulf killers (if he takes one) and do fairly well against anything really. take them in 2 groups of three. that way you can split your fire if need be.

against vampire counts look out for the magic phase. take as much magic defence as you can. a scroll, feedback, tricksters shard, whatever. get some magic defence cause thats where the vamps hit hardest. at this level of play you might be able to get away with just a dispel scroll.

You might like taking warp fire throwers in this case over wind mortars and rattling guns because of the lack of ranged vampires (im not actually sure they have any) and the far more devastating effects of a WFT

Take your clanrats in 2 units of 30 5 by 6. this will keep you steadfast for maybe a combat phase or 2 each. need a bsb to help those guys out

take a plague banner with your monks. try to break a unit in one turn with them. without big doomwheels, helpits, tar pits of slaves, or a bell/furnace you need to do lots of damage fast.

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stormtruperTK41
Clanrat
Quick question on giant rats. With the 8th edition all units fight in two ranks, which kind of makes the "wave of rats" rule redundant. I read the errata and the issue does not seem to be addressed. Are we to assume that a unit of GR 5 wide and three deep would get the first two ranks to attack due to basic rules and then the third rank can also attack due to "wave of rats".

Effectively meaning that giant rats that are 10 wide and 4 deep would have all 40 models attacking with the hoard rule and wave of rats rule?
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Kritch Wormtail
Clanrat
you would be correct in assuming that
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Flem
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A blood curling cough a day, keeps the assassins away

if fun is what you are looking for i'd avise a tunneling team unit of night runners. When will they come out, where will they come out, all big questions that can mess both you and your opponent their battle plan up.
Another fun thing to try is the assassin with the infernal bomb.

If moulder is your way to go then skweel should be present. Although if fielding skweel gnawtooth i'd field him in a giant mass of giant rats. Add a cheap char with skavenbrew to this unit and even your giant rats can tear through the standard core troop.
This combo also works on a big Rogre unit although you don't want the skavenbrew to go wrong on your rogres.

Some tips on vampires:
* Vampire magic phases can be horrible to deal with. Let him raise those new units all he wants (they are small and are worth 50 VP). The movement spells are what you really want to stop. Try to decide what unit is more crucial for him to get a succesfull invocation on and dispell that one.
* In the VC army their main force are their chars, without a general they crumble and without magic they slowly wither away. Most chars hit rather hard in combat so be on your guard.
*Make sure you have enough magical attacks to kill those ethereal creatures, or they will haunt you ;)
*make sure to bring a cannon/doomwheel/jezzails to take down the juicier targets like a coach or a vargulf(Although in case of a vargulf enough poisen sling shots from gutter runners will kill him aswell).

Flem,
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stormtruperTK41
Clanrat
Actually yea putting Squeel in a 30 sized unit of GR may be even better than putting him with the rat ogres. I got really excited about combining with some skaven brew, but upon further reading only clan rats and storm vermin may drink the brew...siiiiigh..

So as I am understanding things my best bet here is to throw a ton of stuff at the vampire general and the unit he is in until hes dust, while using the wft, jezzails, and WLCto try and eat other units...
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

or avoid the vampire like you avoid back-stabs and focus on killing off everything else he has. vampire units cost lots o points. if you can maybe tie up his vamp unit(s) with some cheaper units of yours. unless you really think you can bring them down then don't bother trying
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Pherion
Clanrat
stormtruperTK41
Jan 6 2011, 06:26 PM
Quick question on giant rats. With the 8th edition all units fight in two ranks, which kind of makes the "wave of rats" rule redundant. I read the errata and the issue does not seem to be addressed. Are we to assume that a unit of GR 5 wide and three deep would get the first two ranks to attack due to basic rules and then the third rank can also attack due to "wave of rats".

Effectively meaning that giant rats that are 10 wide and 4 deep would have all 40 models attacking with the hoard rule and wave of rats rule?

its in the faq section. they have the "fight with am extra rank" special rule. so you are correct - 3 ranks normaly, 4 ranks with horde
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C57Black
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Warlord
As was already mentioned when fighting VC, take warpfire throwers, lots and lots of warpfire throwers. Templates dropping like flaming rain with the ever present threat a a good 13th spell hitting the VC general's unit has always done the trick for me. And there is the awesome possibility of the warpfire thrower catching fire running around wildly smacking right into the VC lord's bunker and going boom. Aaaah my opponents face when his lord failed that look out sir roll, priceless.
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