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How do you win any games with skaven?; Ive never won a single game skaven
Topic Started: 5th January 2011 - 07:45 PM (1,723 Views)
pierre10
Clanrat
Okay. yes, I just started playing fantasy. I am planning for using a battle standard bearer, as i have an awesome conversion planned. Craventail was actually lasting the longest in all my battles, shame that his high initiative is wasted in front of high elves. I wanted to take the vermin lord because i recently finished converting one from daemon princ parts, screaming bell parts and a stormvermin banner top. I will post my army list in the appropiate section when i get the time, which numbers 2500 points.
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Warlock Matik
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(Z–>)90º – (E–N²W)90ºt = 1

I thought so, you've gone for all our cool but points-heavy stuff ;) If you really want to use a verminlord (and why wouldn't you when you've converted one from scratch!) then feel free, I have seen a few lists that use one, although I must admit that they tend to be for large-scale battles (4000-6000pts) where the huge points cost is less of an issue. Once we see your list we should be able to offer better advice :)
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reddogfish77
Grey Seer
next game i get i would love to use a vermin lord... he got way more juicy with the 8th ed rules set... impact hits, stomp and his ability to actually cast the 13th... lol.

plus his int8 and ability to first turn charge almost.... sweet.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

yes but hes also a large target. and has only a 5+ ward between him and cannon balls
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Lord Twitch Silverfangs
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suprisingly enough i gave a stormvermin unit (20 models) a banner of the underempire (2D6 str 2 auto hits) and it does good against HE cuz of low toughness
SHINY!!!!! urgh....its only gold...needs silver.....
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pierre10
Clanrat
As I worked hard to convert it, in bigger games, i will use a vermin lord. Any tactics for making the most out of him? and about stray heavy artillery shooting him down, no problem. The high elf player i play against NEVER brings shooting units, apart from some lothern sea guard or archers.
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scratchings and squeakings

I wouldn't neglect the LSG and Archers entirely. A stand and shoot reaction from them could knock off a wound and as they're ASF in combat they'll probably get another one or two before you get to strike back. Then consider that he'll probably only get 3-4 wounds on them and they'll have rank bonus and standard for CR points. IMO he shouldn't really be used against R&F troops.

I use a Vermin Lord as a very big assassin. He has the stats to go toe-to-toe with even the mightiest enemy generals/monsters and his D3wounds Doom Glaive takes them out. He is best used against things that don't have much shooting (or at least no cannons) such as Chaos, Daemons, Lizards and Ogres.

BTW, could you post up some pictures of that conversion? It sounds deadly!

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pierre10
Clanrat
I will be starting an army blog in the skaven painting skaven section soon, but ive still got to get the local store manager to help with sculpting a tail on the vermin lord. Also, i have a HUGE pile of primed stormvermin to paint. Anyway, heres my army list.

2500
Grey seer on screaming bell=440
Tretch craventail=145
Queek=215
Chieftain on warlitter with warpstone armour=110
52 clanrats with full command and a warpfire thrower=220, 70
20 stormvermin with full command and stormbanner=215
20 slaves with warpgrinder=40, 60
20 slaves with doom flayer=40, 55
20 stormvermin with full command=165
2 masterbred rat ogres with master moulder with shock prod=110, 58
20 plague monks with full command=165
hell pit abom=235
doomwheel=150

All illegal options, such as weapon teams on slaves, my rival allows, in return for me letting him use his lethal white lion riders.
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

Quote:
 
2500
Grey seer on screaming bell=440
Tretch craventail=145
Queek=215
Chieftain on warlitter with warpstone armour=110
52 clanrats with full command and a warpfire thrower=220, 70
20 stormvermin with full command and stormbanner=215
20 slaves with warpgrinder=40, 60
20 slaves with doom flayer=40, 55
20 stormvermin with full command=165
2 masterbred rat ogres with master moulder with shock prod=110, 58
20 plague monks with full command=165
hell pit abom=235
doomwheel=150


grey seer + Tretch is fine

queek is maybe. don't know how well he preforms.

you can't take a chieftain on a war-litter. only a warlord. might try taking that as a BSb

20 storm vermin wont do much. try to keep them away from the action so your banner lasts longer

slaves can't take weapons teams. you can give one of the to the storm vermin however.

combine the units into 40 man units. either in a horde or stubborn formation.

you can only take one master bred ogre per unit.

since you can't take one of your current weapons teams you might try giving the plague monks the plague banner.

Hell and doom wheel are fine.
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scratchings and squeakings

Is that that guy, wossname, from over on ulthuan.net who's converted his own Lion Riders or does he use proxys? I just hope you make him pay a massive number of points for those beasties.

I'd advise sticking Power Scroll and Shadow Magnet on your Grey Seer. Use up some points on magic items. That's why we have a hundred point allotment. Also stick the slaves together in one unit and make it a bigger unit with many many ranks and get two of them. Don't bother giving Slaves a Warp-Grinder (even if it was legal), get Gutter Runners if you want to spring a deployment/table edge surprise on him as Gutter Runners can actually do damage to things as oppose to Slaves who exist only to hold things up by dying. Don't bother with the Doom Flayer either. Against ASF Elves it'll be dead before it gets to do anything at all.

It's hard to give more advice seeing as you're both bending army composition rules. Roughly what kind of a list does your opponent use?

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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

white lions are legal? i missed that last bit about him aloowing all the illigal options

the thing about high elves is you can win 3 ways

A: War of attrition in close combat. you need huge blocks of slaves to tie him up for eternity

B: You shoot the crap out of them as stated before. use plague, 13th, warp lightning, in magic phase. use slaves to tie units up and then light him up with warp fire (if he's not taking archers)

C: Throw very high toughness units at his flanks. Hellpits, doomwheels, that will chew him up. let him strike first and reroll hits all he wants. he'll need 6's to wound

the best thing of corse is to form some combination of this.

Just throwing stormvermin against high elves will result in very dead stormvermin

you have nothing that shoot in the army. not even a lone doom rocket! against high elves thats not good!
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pierre10
Clanrat
First, queek performs hell well in battle. My rival backs away from challenges a lot, which allows for queek to slash through plenty of low toughness elves. I use a warpgrinder as I put tretch in the unit of slaves, so when they pop up at the opponents flank, his tretchs raiders ability allows him to cause good damage. I really overestimated stormvermin: high elf basic infantry is better than them! I use 13th spell frequently, as i managed to kill 30 sword masters in one magic phase with it. His white lions take up most of his army, as each of them can kill a single plain chieftain! With shooty units, im a bit stuck. Ill use a warp lightining cannon and plagueclaw catapult, but what else? My rival has a chrace army (which he still hasnt painted), so loads of chariots, white lions, white lion riders, prince on lion, sword masters, korhil, some archers, spearmen and sea guard.
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Sleboda
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pierre10
Jan 7 2011, 02:17 PM
I use a warpgrinder as I put tretch in the unit of slaves, so when they pop up at the opponents flank...

I use 13th spell frequently, as i managed to kill 30 sword masters in one magic phase with it.


So, you have two masterbred rat ogres in one unit, a warpgrinder for slaves, and somehow killed 30 models on a 4D6 roll.


Hmmm....with all these illegal things, how have you lost yet? :) Very Skaven of you!
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(Z–>)90º – (E–N²W)90ºt = 1

Sleboda, he's a young kid and his opponent lets him bend some stuff in return for using white lion cavalry. Although the 30 models from 4D6 does leave me flummoxed :P

pierre, I suggest using larger units all round, not just the one for your sceaming bell. Also, I'd consider dropping the doomflayer for a shooty weapon team - warpfire, mortar or even ratling gun. Lastly I'd swap the warlitter chieftain for a warlock with doomrocket and warp-energy condenser - the rocket is great fun and warp-lightning should be able to hurt his chariots and lion riders, although I admit I've never heard of them before (the riders).
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Mathusala0
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The Evil Underlord

against that army, warp fire is acceptable if you have a storm banner. take lots of that and maybe through in some jezzails.

Plague is better than thirtenth against high elves as since they dont have a ward anyway, and it's easier to cast. and it has a chance of spreading AND it almost always kills half the unit. thirteenth kills an average of 14, plague kills an average of 50% so against a unit of say 50 elves. a big plague will kill 25 where thirteenth kills 14. against a unit of 20 you would use thirteenth

to kill off his chariots i would take 2 doom wheels and 2 cannons. high toughness on the wheels will keep them alive, and the cannons and the doom wheels are both very effective at killing chariots/lone characters.

since hes allowing you to take slaves with warpfire use this to your advantage. take both slave units with it and keep the throwers behind them. charge slaves in and fire away with the flame

Trech has to go into a clanrat/stormvermin unit anyway to make use of his special rule flanking dealio. so have him in a unit of stormvermin instead on a flank with your grinder.

take a 45 point warlock with a doom rocket. either put him with the tunneling unit or in another unit. if hes on the flank of the enemy line. and by this i mean that he can draw a straight line through at least 2 or 3 high elf units than fire with 5 dice. if you cant draw a straight line always aim for 14 inches away (the average of 4d6) this way you have a very good chance of landing smoothly. S5 large blast = many many many dead high elves (as it will negate their 5+ armor saves and wound on 2+)

plague claw catapults are not as effective as warp lightning. scatters to often and the panic checks are easy to pass.

white lions still have only one wound however and only a very little armor if i recall. High elves getting shot tend to die fast.
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