| W. Pistols and Warpstone Weapons | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 30th December 2010 - 05:33 AM (1,522 Views) | |
| Razuli | 30th December 2010 - 05:33 AM Post #1 |
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Grey Seer
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So I was experimenting with different weapon combinations on cheiftans in my army and I ran into a few questions regarding warplock pistols... 1.) The rules say they follow the rules for pistols, but the FAQ changed the magic attacks of warpstone weapons so that they are simply magic weapons, the rules for pistols allow a character to wield a pistol as if it is a second weapon, but a character cannot duel wield a weapon if one is magical, does one rule override the other? 2.)Regardless of the answer to #1, does warpstone weapon apply to attacks made with a pistol in close combat or only range attacks made with the pistol? 3.)Would scavenge pile poison work on them as close combat weapons if the warpstone weapons only applied to ranged attacks or would the fact that one part of the weapon being magical prevent the poison from being applied at all? |
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| PezCat | 30th December 2010 - 05:39 AM Post #2 |
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Irrepressible Anklebiter
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As I read the rules, here's how I would answer these: 1) The Warplock Pistol is your lone magic weapon. Unless there's an errata or rule that says you can have more, you're stuck here. Were there an allowance to use the pistol as a "paired" weapon, you could get away with it. Sadly, not allowed as far as I know. 2) Yes - the whole thing counts as magical. You're not just pistol-whipping, you're pulling the trigger at point blank. 3) I don't recall reading anything that poison and magic are mutually exclusive. As I read it, it would "shoot" magical, and "melee" both magical and poisoned. There may be a rules ruling I am unaware of that debunks this, but this is how it reads. |
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8th Ed: 2-0-0 Last Game: 1500, Vampire Counts, Win - Tabled on Turn 5 Self-Detonations This Game: Warp Lightning Cannon (Turn 1), Ratling Gun (Turn 2), Vampire via miscast (Turn 4), Warlock Engineer via miscast (Turn 4), Poisoned Wind Mortar (Turn 4). Note: Vampire's Miscast took 4 zombies, 1 skeleton, and 3 skavenslaves with him. Doomwheel did not die, but did wound itself on Turn 4. | |
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| Razuli | 30th December 2010 - 05:42 AM Post #3 |
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Grey Seer
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I didnt notice that they also FAQ'd Poision the the univeral rules instead of the army book rules. |
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| tbone | 30th December 2010 - 07:58 AM Post #4 |
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Grey Seer
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Poison only works for mundane weapons not magical weapons. And since warpstone weapons are now considered full fleged magic weapons, they will not benefit from poison (the entry in the BRB for poison says it doesn't work on magical weapons). |
| Tbone's Nasty Rats | |
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| PezCat | 30th December 2010 - 11:03 AM Post #5 |
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Irrepressible Anklebiter
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My mistake. I figured there'd be something somewhere that made my guess wrong, just couldn't actually FIND it. Not the first time, won't be the last!
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8th Ed: 2-0-0 Last Game: 1500, Vampire Counts, Win - Tabled on Turn 5 Self-Detonations This Game: Warp Lightning Cannon (Turn 1), Ratling Gun (Turn 2), Vampire via miscast (Turn 4), Warlock Engineer via miscast (Turn 4), Poisoned Wind Mortar (Turn 4). Note: Vampire's Miscast took 4 zombies, 1 skeleton, and 3 skavenslaves with him. Doomwheel did not die, but did wound itself on Turn 4. | |
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| hotwarplead | 6th January 2011 - 07:12 PM Post #6 |
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eater of rules
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upon rereading the Pistol rules in the Core Rule Book, I am really not liking this new "is a magical weapon" even more. Waplock Pistol, uses the Pistol Rules and is a Magic Weapon Pistol rules state that they use the Additional Hand Weapon Rules Additional Hand Weapon/Paired Weapons is its own weapon rule and states that It can not be used with a Magic Weapon. So pick one, A ) you get the additional attack (dont think that works, but rules as is you may be able to argue it) that is a Magic Weapon that has AP B ) you get your base attacks with a magic weapon that has AP (I would say this one is the correct one, but that is just me) or C ) since its a Magic Weapon and you cant have a Magical Additional Hand Weapon, only get the ranged part of the pistol and have to use the hand weapon that you have (this is only good for warlords and Fangleaders, I dont like this answer & it sucks, but it may be the correct one just like A & B may be the correct answer) |
| there is no Skaven Dentist | |
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| Warlock Matik | 6th January 2011 - 07:30 PM Post #7 |
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(Z–>)90º – (E–N²W)90ºt = 1
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I believe that the correct answer is that in combat it functions exactly like an AHW (+1A at base strength) but grants the model magical attacks. I'll repost my reasoning from a near identical discussion: http://underempire.net/index.php?showtopic=35929&st=15
I still feel, however, that GW should simply errata warpstone weapons to simply grant the special rule 'Magical Attacks' rather than the way it's worded now. Saves a lot confusion. (Oh, and by the way hotwarplead, pistols in combat don't benefit from AP, that's in 'shooting' mode only )
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| hotwarplead | 6th January 2011 - 08:48 PM Post #8 |
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eater of rules
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Don't have my book on me, so could you please show ref that its for shots only? Seeing as other melee weapons have AP, such as the Ogre Kingdoms Ogre Club and the DE Beastmaster's Scourge. |
| there is no Skaven Dentist | |
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| Warlock Matik | 6th January 2011 - 09:00 PM Post #9 |
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(Z–>)90º – (E–N²W)90ºt = 1
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Certainly On the weapons page (pg91 BRB) the profile for pistol has '(shooting)' underneath it, it then goes on to say that in CC it follows the same rules for an AHW, and the AHW statline doesn't include AP. For comparison look at the brace of pistols - it has two stalines, one for shooting and one for CC: the shooting one has AP, the CC one doesn't.I wasn't saying you can't get AP in combat (biting and weeping blades show that), just that the pistol loses that ability once in combat.
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| Plague Priest Phebrickid | 6th January 2011 - 09:02 PM Post #10 |
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'Embrace Pestilence!'
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It is shooting only because it is is only mentioned as armour piercing in the stat for the pistol when shooting (eg. in 40K a guy with a melta does not benefit from AP1 in combat . . . )
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| hotwarplead | 6th January 2011 - 09:05 PM Post #11 |
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eater of rules
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Warplock pistols, Use rules for Pistol, AND subject to shorter range AP and UA, See Jezzails for rule.... So, yes AP in Melee |
| there is no Skaven Dentist | |
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| Warlock Matik | 6th January 2011 - 09:13 PM Post #12 |
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(Z–>)90º – (E–N²W)90ºt = 1
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Hmm, fair point, since pistols have always been AP including it in the description is pointless unless it was meant to apply to CC as well, I think you may have swayed me :lol: The shorter range bugs me still: in 7th ed normal pistols were 8" range, then they upped it in 8th but left our pistols unchanged, so we went from 2" extra to 2" shorter than everyone else <_< |
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| Razuli | 6th January 2011 - 09:19 PM Post #13 |
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Grey Seer
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Unfortunatley, however, I think this will be too hard for most opponents to swallow, especially since most people view skaven as "OP and breaking most of the rules already." |
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| hotwarplead | 6th January 2011 - 09:28 PM Post #14 |
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eater of rules
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under that logic, its only a warpston weapon when being fired. "Pg 33: a warplock pistol follows the rules for pistol execpt that it has a range of X", is Armour Piercing, Uses Unstable Ammunition(see page lxv) and is a Warpstone Weapon" Not stating when, and other Melee weapons have it, so it isn't just for shots. So Put it on a Warlord is like a Halberd that you can use a shield with (for Armour only) |
| there is no Skaven Dentist | |
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On the weapons page (pg91 BRB) the profile for pistol has '(shooting)' underneath it, it then goes on to say that in CC it follows the same rules for an AHW, and the AHW statline doesn't include AP. For comparison look at the brace of pistols - it has two stalines, one for shooting and one for CC: the shooting one has AP, the CC one doesn't.
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