| Plague Monks without Furnace; Worth it? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 24th December 2010 - 04:18 PM (853 Views) | |
| mrdonkey | 24th December 2010 - 04:18 PM Post #1 |
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Clanrat
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Hey all, just wondering what your thoughts are on taking units of Plague Monks without a Furnace attached. Besides themed lists, would you ever do it? Seems like the only time anyone includes Monks in the army is to push the tower, but is there a reason to take them without it? Obviously it doesn't make them nearly as good as a hammer unit, or an anvil for that matter, but a unit of 30 with the Plague Banner is just over 250 points as opposed to 600+ for a decent Furnace-pushing unit with all the upgrades and goodies so maybe there's a cost to payback ratio that makes them worth considering. Just playing around with my tournament army at the moment, and finding that Rat Ogres are really soft and I'm probably better off with an Abom and maybe a unit of 30 Monks to chop up squishies. So what's the general consensus? |
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| Rodyle | 24th December 2010 - 04:45 PM Post #2 |
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Clanrat
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I don't see a reason why they wouldn't be nice against any unit with not too much armour (though I see very little reason not to put a plague priests in a unit of 30/40 monks, especially because Blessed with Filth is so good against almost anything) and toughness. |
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| ratwhowouldbeking | 24th December 2010 - 05:23 PM Post #3 |
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Clanrat
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The problem is that Stormvermin cost the same and are probably better, pound-for-pound. 1.) Heavy Armor will keep them alive better against Core and arrows. T4 is absolutely nothing to sneeze at, but it doesn't compare favourably to 5+ armor until you're past S3. 2.) WS4 S4 on the Stormies is wicked. 3.) Plague Monks still only get 1 attack for supporting models, so the extra attacks don't add up as nicely as (e.g.) Rat Ogres. 4.) Plague Monks are slow (I3) and Stormvermin are fast (I5). This alone gives them a good edge in 8th. 5.) SV are Core, Plague Monks are Special. While we don't normally have problems filling out our Core or limiting our Special, this is still not a trivial difference. The Plague Banner is awesome, obviously. But I think the general consensus from a power-play point of view is that Plague Monks are mostly for pushing the Furnace. Don't let that stop you from fielding them alone if that is what you want for your army, though! |
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| Sleboda | 24th December 2010 - 05:33 PM Post #4 |
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Pensive Penguins Fan
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If you could put a magic banner on more than one unit of PMs, I _might_ think about a unit of them without the furnace. As it stands, I see pretty much no reason to ever take them without the furnace. They die in droves, and rather easily at that, so if they were not unbreakable you would have expensive (for Skaven) troops evaporating and fleeing for little gain. |
True scholars have more than just one book to study.
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| Corax69 | 24th December 2010 - 05:53 PM Post #5 |
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I've had a great deal of success with my monks. The setup I usually run is 30 Plague Monks with the Plague Priest. The Plague Priest almost always has the censer. I _always_ take the Plague Banner. The Plague Priest is really more of a fighter than a caster. Anything you can cast off him is just a side bonus. Being able to reroll hits and wounds on the first round makes the censer/flail brutal. The toughness checks are nice when your opponent fails them. If I had to choose between my Storm Vermin and my Plague Monks, I'd do with the Plague Monks every time. The monks by themselves will get a reroll to hit in wound, which helps counter their weak strength and WS. Don't throw them against any heavily armored units, like Chaos Warriors or knights. Moderately armored block troops will usually run from the sheer amount of damage you deliver in the first round. After the Plague Banner is spent, you can go around offering the support of at least 21 S3 attacks. I've also had success taking down monstrous infantry and giants. Quantity has it's own quality. |
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| ratwhowouldbeking | 24th December 2010 - 06:03 PM Post #6 |
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Clanrat
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Just a note... the Plague Banner doesn't allow the Priest to reroll to hit and wound. The description is very clear that only Plague Monk models are affected by the Plague Banner. |
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| Corax69 | 24th December 2010 - 07:27 PM Post #7 |
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*ouch* I guess I've been playing it wrong. I thought it affected Clan Pestilence models. All the same, the Plague Banner makes the unit much better. On that initial attack, it makes them hit and wound more often. All the sudden you have fairly good hitting and wounding chances on the initial round. |
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| Greel Warptooth | 24th December 2010 - 07:39 PM Post #8 |
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Clanrat
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Wait... rat ogers soft? How where you feilding/using them? |
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| Corax69 | 24th December 2010 - 08:00 PM Post #9 |
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I haven't gone up _against_ Rat Ogres, but I've fought several Orgre-type(40mm bases, 3 wounds, 3 attack) models. My plague monks have taken down units of Ushtabi(the Tomb King Crocodiles), Minotaurs, and Kroxigors. You _will_ lose models in such a fight, but most Ogre-type models have nonexistent armor and only toughness 4. My ogres once took down a War Hydra that charged them. They got beat up by the handlers, but they managed to do enough wounds to kill it. Of course, the Hydra was extremely unlucky with it's regeneration rolls. |
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| mrdonkey | 24th December 2010 - 08:03 PM Post #10 |
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Clanrat
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I was using them in 2 units of 3, each with a pair of packmasters and a masterbred. A single unit of 6 would probably be better but I have 2 of the IoB rat ogres that really don't fit in with the others, so I decided to split the unit up and use them as masterbreds. And when I say soft, I mean that they tend to get shot at a lot and either die outright or get softened up so much that committing them to combat is suicide. Even despite the Storm Banner the RO present a significant arrow magnet, especially since the only other big nasty in my list is a doomwheel (no abom, no bell/furnace). Yeah, I guess you could say my list in general sounds a bit soft, but I get a lot of complaints when I take the big toys so I've just given up on them. It's not worth the whining and low comp scores. |
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| Sleboda | 24th December 2010 - 08:38 PM Post #11 |
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Pensive Penguins Fan
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This Banner is the reason I would think about using them as my second unit without a furnace. The first unit has UnderEmpire. Since the frontage of that unit has only a few monks in contact, the re-roll banner would be a waste. The UE banner has priority over the re-roll banner, and since you can only get one magic banner in monks, there's no reason to take the second unit in my experience. |
True scholars have more than just one book to study.
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| Greel Warptooth | 24th December 2010 - 08:39 PM Post #12 |
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Clanrat
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If they're getting shot up a lot a bigger unit (ie. six) is usualy better. You might consider puting a naked warlock with shadow magnet trinket in with them. Lastly are you charging into a flank with them or going at it head on? |
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| mrdonkey | 24th December 2010 - 09:36 PM Post #13 |
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Clanrat
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On the rare occasion they see combat I try to use them to chase down weaker units like detachments, or as can openers for things like knights (chaos variety notwithstanding). I will sometimes use them as flanking units in a tough combat but they usually end up giving up more combat res than they generate. |
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| Atropos | 25th December 2010 - 12:56 AM Post #14 |
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Warpstone Addict
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I started using a single unit of Plague Monks with Furnace with awesome results. I ended up using a single unit of PM without a Furnace with great results too (I guess I don't necessarily need a Furnace when I'm taking a Bell and two Abombs). The Plague Banner has always proved amazing. The furnace buffs the Monks, but I guess its true power depends on the kind of list you're building. |
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| Paricidas | 25th December 2010 - 06:46 AM Post #15 |
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Doomwheel Driver
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Plague monks with plague banner are absolutly amazing. Has anyone ehere ever tried them with "Blessed with filth" and a razor standard against an enemy with decent amor? |
| Ceterum censeo Altdorfem esse delendam | |
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