| Vampire Counts in general/Ghouls specific; Looking for tips | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 21st December 2010 - 02:02 AM (780 Views) | |
| Tarendal | 21st December 2010 - 02:02 AM Post #1 |
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Clanrat
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I'm really new to Skaven, still getting the hang of Warhammer in general, and could use some advice. In low point games (500-1500), what are some tips for fighting vampire counts, and specifically what do we have that'd be good against multiple units of ghouls? With the vampire's ability to keep raising back their troops, being able to do a lot of casualties would seem important, but we're also not combat monsters at low points. The toughness 4 of ghouls, plus 2 attacks each, and poison, I'm thinking can tear through blocks of infantry pretty easy, and it's a big risk to throw rat ogres at. Thoughts? I'm open to complete cheese if necessary. My next match should be 750 points in escalation. |
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| Skreetz the Fabricator | 21st December 2010 - 02:55 AM Post #2 |
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Skyre warlock/converter
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Aim for the vampire general. That is the best advice fighting vampire counts. Try to completely kill the ghouls or tie them up in combats that will take them most of the game to win (40 slaves should do the trick). You could also try taking more magic defense to stop the vampire from getting his raise spells off. I cant really think of much more at the moment. |
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| tbone | 21st December 2010 - 06:43 AM Post #3 |
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Grey Seer
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Be sure to have a level 2 wizard and a dispel scroll. Take extra slaves if you are worried about ghouls. |
| Tbone's Nasty Rats | |
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| Tarendal | 21st December 2010 - 08:25 AM Post #4 |
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Clanrat
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Okay, it doesn't have a level 2 wizard or dispel scroll, but what are the thoughts on this list for the 750 point game: Plague Priest Flail, Talisman of Endurance (5+ ward save) and Potion of Speed (+3 initiative for one turn) 20 Plague Monks with full command and Plague Banner Warlock Engineer Hand weapon, Doomrocket 25 Clanrats with full command, hand weapon and shield Warpfire Thrower attachment 40 Skavenslaves Hand weapons 2 Rat Ogres with 1 packmaster Thoughts are: Warlock Engineer will launch the doomrocket at the best spot to try to hit both multiple ghoul units, with a strength 5, it'll wound them on a 3+. Get the Priest going at his vampire, down the potion during the turn they get into combat, and challenge him. With the potion, I'll beat his initiative and will have 4 attacks with the flail. I'll hit on 4+, wound on 2+ and take away 3 from his armor saves due to the flail. With the Plague Banner, the rest of the unit will be getting 18 (5 wide, minus the Priest) attacks, and in the first round rerolling all misses and failed wound rolls. Rat Ogres will be there just to intimidate and flank, slaves will tie up one ghoul unit, and the Warlock's unit will try to engage whichever ghoul unit is closest and weakest after the rocket. Warpfire thrower will hopefully get a good shot at either the ghouls or his knights, if I deploy far enough forward, or get second turn, might be able to hit with the rocket and warpfire, as well as any spell I might get, right away. Thoughts for improvement? |
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| C57Black | 21st December 2010 - 09:14 AM Post #5 |
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Warlord
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Against ghouls? try to hit his units with wither, even if he brings them back they come in with -1 toughness making ghouls much easier to deal with. Also if your games allow for lord choices, try a grey seer with the Dreaded 13th. its great for smoking out the vampire counts general. |
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| Flem | 21st December 2010 - 12:50 PM Post #6 |
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A blood curling cough a day, keeps the assassins away
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The power to summon extra ghouls is a big burden to deal with, i know. But having some magic defence can definitly deal with them. Unlike most of the players here i'd advise you to take ruin lore with you. Death frenzy to ignore his fear and boost your own troops, or scorch. Both can take out alot of them ghouls. A doomwheel can also prove a troublesome opponent in that kind of point armies with it's T6 and alot of wounds. Vampires lack shooting attacks so he'll have to waste power dice if he wants to down it before it reaches his knights or so. But like most players here killing the general is your main consern ;-) Flem, |
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| ratwhowouldbeking | 21st December 2010 - 02:29 PM Post #7 |
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Clanrat
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VCs don't have a lot of tactics for dealing with Doomwheels. Remember that undead don't take leadership tests, but they do lose a number of troops equal to the combat resolution if they lose a battle. A flank charge by rat ogres can kill a lot more undead than first expected. Try and out-magic him. At 1000 points, a naked Grey Seer doesn't even need to cast to be worth his points - he can dispel Invocation constantly. Scorch and Wither will waste his battle lines. Take lots of shooting (templates) and make the undead come to you. Try to kill whole units first so he can't get them all back with a few lucky Invocation rolls. Watch out for ghosts, if you don't have any magical weapons they'll eat you. Slaves will out-tarpit his tarpits, and poison won't kill nearly enough to matter. As for your list, it looks pretty good, but I wouldn't count on the Priest to kill a Vampire in solo combat, plus he will likely just try to protect his Vamp by declining the challenge. Moreover, if he sits his Vamp in graveguard (it's what I would do) then they'll killing blow you to kingdom come. I'd go Level 2 Warlock Engineer, and a toned-down Warlord for Ld (you'll need the Ld to stick combat). |
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| CapAmr05 | 21st December 2010 - 04:13 PM Post #8 |
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You need a BSB; being able to reroll all those fear and break tests is a must. --Cap |
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Lonewolf Grand Tournament April 28-30 The Beer Phase Podcast Clan Skrittar | |
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| ratwhowouldbeking | 21st December 2010 - 04:33 PM Post #9 |
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Clanrat
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I would normally concur, but fitting a BSB into a 750-point list is tough. Ld7 General and Magic are more important than re-rolling. Definitely do it if you can, but at 750 points there are more important things. |
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| drindarion | 4th January 2011 - 09:16 PM Post #10 |
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Greetings! During my long and prosperous time as a Skaven general I've met VC twice (which is the only two matches I've played with the cheeslovers ) and I have come to the conclusion that its better to have a general with ld 6 and a bsb than going without the bsb but having ld 7. Have so far only played at such low levels and the game i played at 750 pts gave me a shocking massacre with 820 VP The main reason for this was luck, but also the fact that i could reroll all those LD-checks. I also came to the conclusion that against VC you dont really need anything hardhitting, I won by attriction and dispelling. And Ghouls: a unit of 30 clanrats and bsb beat the crap out of his 15 ghouls and vampire general ^^ Just remember to keep all units close to eachother, so that they all benefit from both the general and the bsb if possible. |
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| reddogfish77 | 5th January 2011 - 12:55 AM Post #11 |
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Grey Seer
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the same reason he cant deal with a doomwheel is the reason he will have trouble with warp fire throwers... with S5 this thing will paste gouls... and possibly knights if he keeps out of trouble... also worth taking shields on clanrats if he is taking that many ghouls. would also consider the untouchable warlord with warpstone armour to really ramp up the wounds to a unit... you know the one... armour sve of 1+ with reroll and each saved wound bouncing onto the unit that dealt it... also worth taking a weapon that allows you to strike first to give you rerolls to hit with him. i would seriously consider this instead of a GS and then take a cheap level 2 wiz maybe preist or warlock. with warlork definately worth taking doomrocket... generally kills about 50 to 100 pts worth of stuff for the 30 it costs you. if he has knights then it is prob worth considering taking globadiers... they are mobile and will ignore armour. also it depends how many characters he is taking if his general is a souped up caster than GS is definately worth thinking about otherwise try to get your warlord into combat with a decent unit that is unlikely to hurt him. and force them to crumble quickly. as stated by others force slaves into the other ghoul units... especailly with the general then target him with your 6 attacks... you never know you can get lucky. and while they are there warpfire them to death... with one shot and the old rules where partials were hits on 4+ i took out 12 dwarfs with a fire thrower from a 20 man squad... two hits from two of these should make really... really short work of a ghoul squad. also worth mentioning... dont let him get the spirit spell off... it targets every enemy unit on the table and does a D6 worth of wounds to them only to turn them into spirits... it is a weapons team killer... if his caster gets this spell stop it at all costs. |
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) and I have come to the conclusion that its better to have a general with ld 6 and a bsb than going without the bsb but having ld 7.