| IoB ... First BATTLE!!!; New born rat asking some questions | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 16th December 2010 - 07:09 AM (428 Views) | |
| VisualEnemy | 16th December 2010 - 07:09 AM Post #1 |
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Good day my fellow rat brethren! This is my first time posting on this glorious site and I have to say, LOVE it! (especially the anti humie spam method used!) I am new to the game of warhammer, (can't call it a game i think, more like an addiction perhaps) and I am going to play my very first game soon, probably this weekend. Bought the IoB boxset with a mate, and we decided to split the armies, he also houses an army of WE. My questions are: so My army is as follows for now: 40 clanrats 2 ROgres, with Master Moulder 1 Warlock Engineer 1 Warlord PWM weapon team WFT weapon team His army for now: Lord on gryphon flying thing level 1 mage 10 Sword masters of WhoCares 10 Lothern sea gaurds 5 Ellyrian reavers 1) What would you equip the warlord with? Reason for asking is that I am really looking at the Storm Banner, but then he cant have anything else magical, but as a new born skaven slave, i dont think anyone else in my current army can host a magic banner (please correct me if im wrong) 2) General ideas with this army only against his high elves? I have read all over and most ppl immediately bolster their skaven army before the first battle, I will probably only go that route after a few battles. I was thinking along the lines of taking down his pointy ear man on flying thing with my ROgres (read the battle report on GW) but since he can cross the board rather quickly, I realy think he will be gunning it for my weapon teams, hence the reason i want the storm banner 3) If i do upgrade my skaven army, what should I get? (here we dont have too many warhammer shops, and this IoB box set was the only one we've seen thus far) I do not want to splash out too much just yet, but was thinking of trying to get some slaves to tarpit him and a doomwheel in hopes of early game flank charges or attacking whatever is held up by my tarpit. Then the age old debate of Furnace vs Bell. I really am leaning towards Bell with 40 clanrats pushing it, and if army points allow, getting an assassin :ph43r: as a bodyguard unit in my bell pushing unit. but for now, slaves and doomwheel? seems like the best option??? 4) I probably should have asked this first, as it may invalidate some of my previous questions, but I phoned him up and asked what his army points come to, he told me that fully stocked it would come to about 1087 points.... asked him then what his flying thing comes to, and it was easily 400points (stocked with some magical goodies).... so.... if im not mistaken, under 8th edition rules Lords can only be 25% right? so if he wants his flying thing, at such a large point cost, we would need to play a game of 1600pts right? And since it does not look asif he even has enough Core units, is the game even fair? better yet, the IoB game, is it even legal??? PS. Sorry for all the noob questions, and sorry for such a loooooooong and dragged out post, but any help will be greatly appreciated! |
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| Halceon | 16th December 2010 - 11:43 AM Post #2 |
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Theoretical warp-physicist
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Ok, don't worry about the banner - nobody in your army can carry it, you'd need a BSB chieftain for that. If you expect him to go for your weapons teams, you might want to have somebody close by at most times. Let the lordling charge whatever he wants, but make him regret it. As I see it, you'd be best off getting some more firepower and/or fodder before a bell/furnace. I'd go for either Jezzails or Slaves. Come to think of it, I'd definitely go for slaves. Whatever you plan to do with your important units, you'll need the help of fodder to get the enemy in the right place for it. As for the points costs, I'm guessing his flighty lordling might have to come naked-ish to fit in the points cost. Not sure about the contents of IoB, so I can't comment on that. |
-Warpfire breather and propagandist Halceon
The exploits of Clan Aiza | |
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| Scurrilous | 16th December 2010 - 12:37 PM Post #3 |
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Warlord
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Welcome to the pack. I started exactly the same way you did. Know first that the IoB armies are not even points-wise and the elf army is not legal, points-wise. He'll have to limit himself to your points or you'll have to go all-out on the equipment. So here's some advice from a guy a few steps ahead of you. First, don't fight swordmasters if you can avoid it. Second, give your warlock engineer a Warp Energy Condenser and make him a level 2 wizard. You'll want Warp Lightning and if you roll scorch you're going to be a very happy rat. 20 Clanrats will not survive long. You don't get SiN bonus completely as soon as you lose a wound. This means you can make one unit of 30 for your "fighting" and one unit of 10 that can just hide and babysit the poison wind mortar, keeping it away from those pesky sea guard. You're going to want to take your bigger unit of clanrats, with the warlord in preferably, and head right for those seaguard. Head right into them with the rat ogres too, but try to do so on their flank. Rogres move faster, but can't take as many wounds. If you get your warlord, rats and rogres into combat with those sea guard you'll probably win. Swordmasters should be avoided, but pelt them with the WFT and PWM whenever possible, as well as magic. If you can whittle them down then you can risk engaging. Oh and if he's still got that lord on a griffon (illegal for the IoB army and very annying I can tell you) then consider making that "warlord" a chieftan, giving him the storm-banner. It's nasty-licious against shooting and flying. Alternatively you can just hope to get Howling Warp Gale, which is like a watered down storm banner. Moving on, bolstering your army is best done in general with the Skaven Battalion. There's lots of assorted goodies in there. My advice is to scour ebay and anywhere else for basic clanrats/skaven slaves (the models are interchangable really). When you come to build a real army you'll need a lot of them. My 1500 point army has 165 models, and 120 of them are clanrats/slaves. If I could make it all over, knowing what I know now, there would be a lot more of them and they'd mostly be slaves. Skaven slaves are awesome! Well, good luck! Don't get disheartened when the elves beat you silly. The IoB set is not in any way balanced for a "starter" set. If you don't have the rulebook yes, acquire it and get familiar with all the lovely beasties. Page 56 is my fave. |
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Tournemant results to date: vs Vampire Counts: 1 victory vs Dwarves: 1 victory vs Daemons: 1 Draw vs Brettonians: 1 draw, 1 loss vs Skaven: 1 victory vs Lizardmen: 1 victory vs Dark Elves: 1 loss vs High Elves: 1 loss | |
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| Scarr, Reincarnated | 16th December 2010 - 12:44 PM Post #4 |
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11th creator of the Skaven Achievements. Binder of IceAc.
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One tip would be to treat the warlord as a BSB. Another thing to note is that you wont need the storm banner. I used it in my first game(against HE) also and it did nothing. The last tip I will say is: make a 40 body count rat unit and treat the last weapon team as a warp-lightning cannon: it eats ![]() scarr |
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The Pox on you, AND your kind! Player of games, watcher of games, gamer of plays.
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| razaan | 16th December 2010 - 03:45 PM Post #5 |
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Chieftain
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I'm going to have to agree with Scarr. 20 Rats are near useless. I typically run 35 and that's a small unit. Unfortunately, you can't run 30 and 10 as the minimum size of a clanrat unit is 20 models. So I'd run with a unit of 40. The first thing I did after buying IoB was to grab a Warlord model to act as my general and I converted the IoB warlord into a Chieftain to carry my Standard. As for getting started, grab another copy of IoB and sell off the High Elves. That will get you started quickly and cheaply. You'll need bodies for clanrat units and more importantly, you need slaves. Lots of slaves. The Doomwheel is awesome, I highly recommend them. They'll knock out that pesky griffon and rider. Also, as noted, the high elf army is not legal. A prince on a griffon is more than 25% of the total cost of what comes in that box. The High Elf army, with zero upgrades other than what's modeled, is 821 points... and the Prince on the Griffon comes in at a minimum 356. |
| My Warhammer Photo Blog | |
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| VisualEnemy | 16th December 2010 - 04:22 PM Post #6 |
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Hey guys thanks for the input!!! I drove off to the shop to go and stock up on paint, as now comes the next best thing to playing the game, and that is the awesome lil rat army to build, collect and paint... but wow, there really is a lot more than I originally thought! While I was there I decided to bolster the army, I may as well so long now, so I bought a skaven batallion, and will treat the units in there as skaven slaves. I also saw they had the ROgres on sale, so, there went the budget and i walked out with that box, I dont know if its actually worth the points at all, considering the point cost vs that of slaves w shields, but i do like the idea of 3x2 ROgres, since surely they should hopefully deal like 23 hits, they have greater movement, so i wanted to tarpit him with the slaves, while i use the ROgres as a flanking unit (like flank his swordmasters while they are battling my slave unit)... so far would you guys think that actually works in battle?
hehe the IoB compact Rulebook? Pusuit or flee? I now definitely believe I have enough choice (might need even more slaves tho) to atleast adapt any strategy to fight those pesky elves! But yes, I see your points on SiN, the amount of rats I had just would not cut it, so i am off to the ever monumental seeming task of painting all my units... wow, there is alot! |
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| Scurrilous | 16th December 2010 - 05:53 PM Post #7 |
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Warlord
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I meant page 56 of the skaven rulebook ![]() Building and painting all those models should keep you happy for a long while. And yes rogres are tricky to use, mainly they suffer from shooting a lot. Using multiple groups of 2 can work fairly well, although some like to put one big group of 6 together. If that makes combat it'll hurt like hell, but as they say, it's a glass hammer. It's hard to justify the points. Also slaves should probably be kept without shields, according to the math-hammer people. Mine have them, and when they make those parry saves it's amusing and fun, but a block of 40 rats will cost 20 points to put shields on so think about whether you can find a better use for those points! Happy building! |
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Tournemant results to date: vs Vampire Counts: 1 victory vs Dwarves: 1 victory vs Daemons: 1 Draw vs Brettonians: 1 draw, 1 loss vs Skaven: 1 victory vs Lizardmen: 1 victory vs Dark Elves: 1 loss vs High Elves: 1 loss | |
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| VisualEnemy | 16th December 2010 - 06:42 PM Post #8 |
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AAAAAH i see now... yes, that page is definitely one of my favorites, I really want to build one... but that is still at the very bottom of the list. Any rumors as to when the HPA model will come out? hmmm, I see what you say, multiple ROgres will probably be a safer bet, more things for the HE to target. I forgot to say that I also now have 20 plague monks, but at 7 points, the same cost as storm vermin, are they really that good? or are they preferred with a furnace? |
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| deathmaster riddick | 16th December 2010 - 07:12 PM Post #9 |
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I Am The Monster
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if you field them with the plague banner they are really nasty for one turn, other than that, keep the unit size small if you're not with a furnace. your front rank will get 3 attacks each, and every rank after that will only give you one. personally i like to field them seven wide and 2 deep. doesn't look like much of a threat until you use the banner. and since they're frenzied they don't need SiN as much as other units. also, one advantage to the 3X2 ROgres is you could then have a nice expendable giant rat unit. |
The best way to configure an army is to go play demons.-Nevamore Posted on Nov 6 2009, 04:02 PM
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| razaan | 16th December 2010 - 08:39 PM Post #10 |
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Chieftain
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You'll lose a lot of plague monks to High Elves in combat, but they rip elves a new one... especially with the Plague Banner. Their toughness makes them hard to kill for spearmen and seaguard and the elves horrible armor saves and toughness 3 make them prime fodder for Plague Monks. |
| My Warhammer Photo Blog | |
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| razaan | 16th December 2010 - 08:42 PM Post #11 |
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Chieftain
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Oh, and Rat Ogres are good, but they are pretty situational. Chances are he'll do everything in his power to either magic/shoot them dead or he'll hit them with his Swordmasters. Swordmasters make VERY short work of a small pack of rat ogres. I'd go so far to say that if you charge a unit of 10 Swordmasters with Rat Ogres, you'll need at least 4 ogres if you want to have any return attacks. |
| My Warhammer Photo Blog | |
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| VisualEnemy | 17th December 2010 - 04:05 AM Post #12 |
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i thought id run the ROgres in 3 packs of 2, each with own packmaster. then its a small flanking unit (more targets for his archers, and he will probably not shoot at them then, as opposed to try and dwindle the large number of slaves... i hope), ill charge his swordmasters then with my slaves, and then follow up with the ROgres on his flank as they have a greater movement Hmmm I do like the plague monks with the plague banner! If the elves do manage to take them out, I want to atleast see if I can get my points back for them |
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| Paricidas | 17th December 2010 - 05:32 AM Post #13 |
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Doomwheel Driver
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Tarpiting with slaves and flanking with something hitty is often a very good tactic, although it depends on the enmy and on your luck. With swordmasters, this will be a quite risky thing. You can estimate that every swordmaster (in a small unit of them) will kill one slave per turn,. Lets assume your slaves fight against 12 of them. So they swordmasters will kill around 12 and the slaves will kill one in return. In order to win the battle, your flanking unit of ROs must nearly wipe out the Swordmasters. Otherwise you will lose. No problem for your slaves, they will surly be steadfast, but whats with your 6 ROs? If you lost even one through shooting or magic (or the swordmasters) they will probably fail their LD-test and flee. So while flanking with ROs is often a very good idea, it may not be the best in the case of Swordmasters. Swordmasters are normally best left alone, i.e. feed them some slaves and if there are no better targets, show them poity ears how a warplighning cannon works. If they ever get out of combat with the slaves, send a 13th to finish them off... |
| Ceterum censeo Altdorfem esse delendam | |
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| reddogfish77 | 17th December 2010 - 09:36 AM Post #14 |
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Grey Seer
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you seem to have a decent grasp of the tactics already... skaven excel at attacking flanks by forcing cheap units into the front. things to remember... swordmasters are really nasty... but remember in a flank only the units touching attack... while S5 is fantastic they will still miss 1 in 6 at least... 2 rat ogres into a flank of masters should just about kill the unit... if you can set it up against those 10... 10 S5 attacks in all from 2 models. i concure with taking 40 clanrats... take a firethrower with them... and just melt some faces... sit the flamer in front of the rats so his griffin has to charge in before getting charged himself. plague monks are pretty awesome... at least against light or no armour... something the elves are good for. if you had enough plague monks i would even suggest hitting the masters face on... it wouldnt be long before you whittle his numbers so low they are doing little but no need to waste that many points. lol. dont worry about a storm banner... if you really want to be a prick you can take a warpstorm scroll. take it on your engineer and cast a warp lighting at his griffin rider or swordmasters... just not in the first turn so you know what type of magic protection he has... then pull out the scroll when he has no dispel dice left. lol ![]() take the warlord... put him in warp armour and charge his unit into spears or seas guard.... if they target him they will pay dearly. you should be fine... as long as the dice gods dont hate you.. lol. |
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