| Where to find 8th ed tactics?; Anyone know? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 8th December 2010 - 12:04 AM (1,116 Views) | |
| xxrathammerxx | 8th December 2010 - 12:04 AM Post #1 |
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Stormvermin
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I'm relatively new to warhammer and was wondering if anyone is working on a Skaven tactics post for 8th edition, or if they know where to find it. I've heard from different sources around the web that you should play everything pretty much the same, but it seems to me that many of the tactics/strategies posted at the top and needed by Skaven are pretty much useless. What I mean by this are the bait and flee style strategies common in 7th, but since the charging unit can just redirect charges, isn't that tactic obsolete unless you have TWO baiting units? I really need some help because I don't feel like I'm making the tactical progress I hoped to have made by this point in my playing, or maybe I'm just doing things all wrong. I'm super competetive and I HATE losing...lol |
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| Bobofreak | 8th December 2010 - 04:07 AM Post #2 |
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The Big Cheese!!
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Well truth be told your sitting on it What I mean by that is this Forum is where you want to research 8th edition tactics. I don't know if there is a specific 8th tactics thread (You will have to search) but the posts on here since 8th launched pretty much only refer to 8th edition.Now for my two warpstones. 8th for Skaven plays nothing like 7th for me anyway. Gone is the Bait and Flee and the Rat trap. Now ithe biggest mechanic is STEADFAST. If you have more ranks then your opponent you take your breaktests on your unmodified leadership. May not sound like much but here is where Skaven excel because we can make ranks cheaper then almost anyone else. 40-50 skavenslaves may not seem like much of a threat and there not but what they do now in 8th is either charge the opponents hammer unit or get charged by there hammer unit. Now I know your saying "But Bobo there slaves and they are LD2!!" Yes but they are Ld 7 within the Inspiring Presance of the General and with Strength in Numbers and 3 ranks besides the first they are LD 10. Now stick them within 12 inches of the BSB and they are Steadfast on 10 X 2. Skaven slaves can effectively tarpit just about everything in the game long enough for you to hit there unit with your Hammer (A-Bomb, Plaugue Furnace, Doomwheel etc) Also you no longer randomize shooting and ranged magic into Skaven slaves that are in HtH with the enemy if you can see the target you can shoot it. If you don't hit the enemy unit with anything a Skaven Bus as I call it (I run em 5X10 usually) can hold up a unit long enough in the game that when they finally break you have either taken care enough of your opponent army that the hammer dosent matter or there arent enough turns left for it to even be effective. All this for a cost of 100 pts for 50 models that dont panic your other units(Besides slaves of course) Also lets not forget Skavenslaves get a lot scarier to the enemy if you Wither the unit there in combat with once or twice!! To me thats the biggest Skaven change but there are a lot more and I think its covered by the people that know it best is this forum. So I would hunker down get out some cheese and read away if you spend a couple hours doing that I think you will come away with a really good handle on how to play Skaven in 8th edition. In my opinion (and I know some disagree ) Skaven are one of the top tier Armies in the game today. 8th did level the playing field amongst all the armies but Skaven got massive improvements.FYI I still think the Dreaded 13th with a Powescroll is the best grenade in the game. Wittle a unit down to 14 or so models and drop the 13th on them 3.5 X 4 = 14 = Clanrat unit!! on average. |
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| Paricidas | 8th December 2010 - 07:02 AM Post #3 |
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Doomwheel Driver
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The UnderEmpire is a good source for many kinds of tactics, unfortunatly nobody ever has taken the effort to sum them all up in one single article for 8th. So the info is here, its just a little bit hard to find. If you are new to 8th ed skaven I would first recommend you to read some threads of the army board with enough replies. People tend to discuss army lists and the whys and whynots of an army there. Very usefull if you want to have a general idea of how to build a skaven army. In the tactics section you will mostly find tips for certain skaven units or opponents. Many of them are useful, but you often will not notice it by the title. In general, anything that is worth a read will have 10 replies or more, if it has less, the topic might have been already answered elsewhere. What this forum really lacks are long and elaborated threads about deployment and movement phases, filtering out the information here will be hard. There are some additional websites which will include tactics for (and especially against) skaven. Ulthuan and druchi.net have some nice tactical reads about skaven and you learn to see your own army with the eyes of the enemy. Dakkadakka has some really outdated articles on what I would call general warhammer tactics. Some of them are of no use at all in 8th, but some are still quite usefull (a refused flank in 7th is still a refused flank in 8th...) http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Warhamme...Army_Strategies One of the most popular sites, warseer, also has a very long thread about skaven tactics. Imho it is totally useless as some posters on warseer tend to speak out of their axx but you may find some usefull information even there. http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260493 To be fair, warseer also provides you with a list of forums for every special AB: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197251 |
| Ceterum censeo Altdorfem esse delendam | |
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| Oky | 8th December 2010 - 08:02 PM Post #4 |
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Sorry for the Small question: Where does it state this? as this is the 1st time I run across this. -- I myself, am in the same Boat as you OP. I am new to Skaven, and fairly new to Warhammer Fantasy. This site so far has been a Great resource, unfortunately due to me being new, many times I simply don;t understand what some people are talking about. But I make it a point to keep up to date, and read the forums, and then practice.. This is where I feel I will learn the most: I need to practice more with a buddy or two. I need to find out exactly how my play style fits best with these awesome Rats. |
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| Warlock Matik | 8th December 2010 - 08:20 PM Post #5 |
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(Z–>)90º – (E–N²W)90ºt = 1
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It's in the Skaven FAQ that's found on the main GW site. One of the errata's was to delete the last two sentences of the expendable rule (which talk about randomising). Actually that's some advice for the OP too, check the FAQ for other little naughty things we can do
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| Oky | 8th December 2010 - 08:37 PM Post #6 |
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Hmm.. I have the Skaven FAQ opened.. and I see no Mention of this. The Only Mention I find, is the fact that it specifies we pass panic tests caused by friendly skavenslaves. I may just be blind, and if so my Apologies. I would love to find the entry though.. MUTATE: There is also the Entry in teh FAQ that Template hits, do not randomise hits. I am guessing that was what caused the above statement? |
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| Warlock Matik | 8th December 2010 - 09:01 PM Post #7 |
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(Z–>)90º – (E–N²W)90ºt = 1
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Page 3 of the FAQ v1.3, under 'Ammendments', 'Page 36 - Expendable', 'Delete the last two sentences'. Can't point you any further than that
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| Oky | 8th December 2010 - 09:57 PM Post #8 |
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That would do it.. Apparently I was looking at a different version of the FAQ... (I should have noticed, from the last updated date) Google failed me.. :/ Thanks for pointing this lost rat in the right direction. |
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| xxrathammerxx | 10th December 2010 - 07:15 AM Post #9 |
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Stormvermin
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Thanks for all the replies to my question. I've actually spent a lot of time reading posts, but I have trouble compiling the many posts in my mind into something that moves, breathes and kills my opponents. And Paricidas, I'll check out that refused flank tactic as I'm pretty sure it's been used against me, I just haven't recognized it. Let alone known how to stop it. My only problem is, I want to hit other units in the flank WITHOUT a tarpit of slaves, which seems nigh impossible in 8th. Most of the tactics from 7th appear to have been designed with this end in mind (imho, I never played 7th). Bait and flee ect. In my experience, my 5X10 unit of 50 slaves always lasts atleast 2.5 turns against any foe, the problem is winning combat resolution with any units hitting my opponent unit in the flank since I can easily lose 10 slaves per round of combat vs a hitty unit. The only strategies I can think of are simply ignoring their slave-tarpitted units with my flankers and focusing on shooting into combat with templates. I've had plenty of bad experiences where my flankers have been forced to flee because THEY weren't steadfast and both units combined did not win CR. Oh crap, I just realized that I never include +3 for ranks since I'd negate their rank bonus with the flank, BUT that would still have me losing if they kill a bunch of slaves. I'm not a huge fan of clanrats in the flank. I only kill 3 per round max, but they are cheap... I'm thinking about taking like 2 or 3 warpfire throwers and just melting faces from a distance. This seems like the only way the tarpit will work effectively; although it does rely on Skaven shooting which is after all, Skaven...and random at best. On a matter of clarification, I am pretty sure that the FAQ's rule on firing at combats including expendable Skaven units only refers to template shooting and not BS shooting, which would still be randomized as hitting both friends and foe. |
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| Tanglewood | 10th December 2010 - 10:12 AM Post #10 |
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Warlord
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If you're losing in combat res suggests that your hammer isn't hitting the enemy unit as hard as they are hitting your slaves. Maybe it's because the enemy unit has great damage output as well as great saves in which case the respond is 1/ Ignore them. Let the 400 points unit spend the game killing 100 points of Ld 10, stubborn slaves. Pin down 2 units like this and it'll be like playing with 600 points extra to the enemy on the rest of the board 2/ Hit them with a bigger hammer (bigger unit or combine charge with 2 hammers) and give the slaves shield since you're trying to reduce combat res given away. Once you can match casualty output as the enemy, you'll be able to win through the static res (flanking optional) or through attrition at least. I cant believe how good the slaves are. 125 points of slaves close to the general + bsb will tie down absolutely any unit of any size due to stubborn, SiN and rerollable ld test (careful of frenzied two handed chaff-blenders though). Add in a handful of 15 points naked warplock to block paths/slow down enemy mean you can really tie down the enemy for the skaven hammers to flank/gang up and go to town. In my opinion, clanrats aren't killy enough to be your hammer and generate combat res. They are however brilliant with a bell. A unit with a bell, grey seer general, bsb and 2 slaves units can reliably hold anywhere on the map. After that it's a matter of getting the hammers to come and start rolling from one of the side. Despite being a skaven general, I hate the randomness of our (mostly awesome) shooting weapons. Instead I put my faith in ranks, standards and movement. Also nothing more awesome than seeing rats stretched edge to edge
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What I mean by that is this Forum is where you want to research 8th edition tactics. I don't know if there is a specific 8th tactics thread (You will have to search) but the posts on here since 8th launched pretty much only refer to 8th edition.




