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Help needed fighting to fight horrible monsters
Topic Started: 1st December 2010 - 05:37 PM (1,659 Views)
Bobtailmaneater
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reddogfish77
Dec 3 2010, 12:08 AM
if you are having probs with bloodthirsters try slave hordes with 40+ models and unit of 6-10 globadiers... force him into combat with the slaves by using the stormbanner to ground him then globe to death... for full effect serve cold with a side of relish...

Don't you have to randomize hits when you toss globes into combat?
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
Bobtailmaneater
Dec 6 2010, 03:45 PM

Hang on a sec....did they remove the shooting modifier against large targets? 


I don't think they just removed the -1. I think they removed the entire large target category. Bad for Jezzails, good for vermin lord. You can screen him with rat ogres now.
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Midnight_Fox
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Warlord Kan'ok'tichek, Daimyo of Clan Nezumi
Bobtailmaneater
Dec 6 2010, 03:48 PM
reddogfish77
Dec 3 2010, 12:08 AM
if you are having probs with bloodthirsters try slave hordes with 40+ models and unit of 6-10 globadiers... force him into combat with the slaves by using the stormbanner to ground him then globe to death... for full effect serve cold with a side of relish...

Don't you have to randomize hits when you toss globes into combat?

Nope. FAQ removed the 2 final sentences(ie., the ones that tell you to randomize) from the rule.
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Bobtailmaneater
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Midnight_Fox
Dec 6 2010, 04:03 PM
Bobtailmaneater
Dec 6 2010, 03:48 PM
reddogfish77
Dec 3 2010, 12:08 AM
if you are having probs with bloodthirsters try slave hordes with 40+ models and unit of 6-10 globadiers... force him into combat with the slaves by using the stormbanner to ground him then globe to death... for full effect serve cold with a side of relish...

Don't you have to randomize hits when you toss globes into combat?

Nope. FAQ removed the 2 final sentences(ie., the ones that tell you to randomize) from the rule.

Wasn't that removed because the BRB has the same language that applies to all units shooting into combat?
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Trulseren
Clanrat
No, PWGs still need to randomize hits, its in the unit description.

But then again, on a 4-6 you hit the Bloodthirster, a 500+ pts greater deamon. If you roll a 1-3 you hit... a 2 pt skaven slave.

Yeah, its definatly worth it :P

edit: what the heck? Removal of the Large target rule? Removing move or fire for jezzails? You guys need to read the rule book a few more times before you are allowed to post anything on the internet :blink:
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razaan
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Chieftain
My biggest issue with PWG's is the such small chance you'll actually wound anything.

They have a base BS of 3... so assuming the first round of combat they have to move into range.

So I have 6, hitting of 5's. Of the 6 shots, 2 would hit. Randomizing the targets, 1 would hit my slaves, 1 would hit the monster I'm fighting. And then, it has a 50% chance of actually dealing a wound. On top of that, if the monster has any ward saves, it decreases my chances even further.

If we bump it up to a full unit of 15, 150 points...
15 attacks
5 hits
3 randomize to target (rounding up)
2 wounds (rounding up)
?? Any ward saves. 4+ is pretty common.
So basically you can average out 1 wound per turn on a large creature with 15 Globadiers... assuming you don't end up killing your Globadiers by rolling a 1 to hit.

Second round of throwing (going to assume we didn't roll any 1's)
15 attacks
8 hits (rounding up)
4 randomize to target
2 wounds
?? Ward saves
So you are looking at 1-2 wounds, even without moving!

Seems like pretty horrible odds for an expensive and fragile unit. Please tell me someone out there has had better luck with them.
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Krogholt
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Chieftain
razaan> I absolutely agree with those calculations. Actually, I would say they are a bit worse, since thrown weapons also get -1 to hit when shooting over half range (not a 100% on this, but 95%) in 8th edition rules...

So basically, unless you are almost in close contact with your enemy, some of your globadiers will only hit on 6's, and therefore be almost as likely to wound themselves as their enemy (6 followed by 4+, or 1 followed by 5+).

When I do the math, I can simply not see PWGs being worth it.

Jezzails on the other hand, actually have a chance of making their points back.

Say for the same amount of points (150), you get 7 Jezzails (one of them a Sharpshooter team), but the difference is that you can shoot at your enemy every turn.

Sure, they may be above half range the first round, but they will probably be within 18" by turn 2.

Turn 1:
7 shots
2.48 hits
1.24 wounds (Assuming T6 on enemy)

Turn 2:
7 shots
3.66 hits
1.83 wounds (T6 enemy)

Of course there is the AS but it will worst case be at 5+, assuming that your enemy monster has a 1+ AS beforehand.

The big plus with the jezzails is that you don't have to place them in the middle of your combat to get to shoot at your enemy, so you have about the same offensive power, but a much increased survivability.

(of course you could come up with a scenario where PWGs might be better... Say, against a Steamtank with T10, and AS 1+, but there is no way even 30 globadiers (the same points value as a steamtank) could take a stank out during an entire game... Leave that up for the WLCs, cracks call, and the fellblade.
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Paricidas
Doomwheel Driver
PWGs are the cheapest method to get a weapon team on the board (if you like PWMs). Other than that I really dont know what they could be used for...

If you want a big monster to go down, you zap it with the DW or shoot it with a WLC, as both of these are quite random, you may need to shoot it AND zap it befor it goes down.
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Warlock Matik
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(Z–>)90º – (E–N²W)90ºt = 1

Razaan and Krogholt,
As thrown weapons globies don't suffer the -1 for moving and shooting, so it is likely that you will be hitting on 4+ close range and 5+ longrange. And as skirimishers you can march and shoot so they have an effective 14" to 18" range.

That said the rest of your maths does follow through so yes, the number of wounds they'll cause is quite small and jezzails will usually be a better choice. The other thing going for PWGs though is the ability to take a Mortar and Death globe for some templatey goodness.
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Bobtailmaneater
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Been thinking about adding a chieftain to my Jezzail team, with a warp musket and poison...

The best use of Globodiers is against Dwarves, where you place them where they cannot be charged or shot at and then just lob away, turn after turn. They aren't much good against monsters, although putting a wound or two on a steam tank usually renders the tank ineffective for the rest of the game, even if you can't kill it.
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tbone
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While I haven't played with them yet, I think on their own PWGs aren't very good. They are decent vs. very difficult to wound stuff, but rank and file they will have trouble making their points back. PWGs seem like they should take a bombardier with a death globe and as many mortar teams as possible, both of which would make them better vs. RnF.
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ratwhowouldbeking
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Clanrat
Bobtailmaneater
Dec 7 2010, 05:02 PM
Been thinking about adding a chieftain to my Jezzail team, with a warp musket and poison...

The best use of Globodiers is against Dwarves, where you place them where they cannot be charged or shot at and then just lob away, turn after turn. They aren't much good against monsters, although putting a wound or two on a steam tank usually renders the tank ineffective for the rest of the game, even if you can't kill it.

Poisoned Attacks won't work on the Warpmusket, it's a Magical Weapon.
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Bobtailmaneater
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Aw, right. Well then, for 50 points you can have a warlock with a warpmusket and optics, but you still have the problem of a unit with a base Ld of 5. This is the biggest problem with Jezzails in my experience.
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reddogfish77
Grey Seer
i think globadiers have uses... plenty of uses.

you can take small very mobile units... a very bad prob with jezzails.

think of what gutter runners do to others... now what would they do to jezzails.

they cost twice the points and i dont see how they are more survivable.

they are mosre suseptible to templates fast moving troops and anything that looks scary.

sure globadiers are glass cannons... or at least they hold them... but i would take 2 units of 5 if i knew i was fighting monsters and i would run them in a thin line beside a furnace and big block of slaves.

if you do 2 wounds to a GD the whole game that equats to their points value... kill three knights... not hard with no AS and you have the same result.

in a war of attrition if you dont have to worry too much about the enemies shooting i think globadiers are alright.
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Ablabab
Chieftain
With a range of 8" and BS 3, globadiers are utter crap - they never do anything worthwhile since 8th.
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