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Is Death Frenzy a RiP spell?
Topic Started: 24th November 2010 - 09:29 PM (880 Views)
Spaco
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Eshin Assassin

Does Death Frenzy count as a Remains In Play spell? If so, can it be dispelled or ended by the caster afterwards? Is there a list of the spell types for each of the Skaven spells somewhere?
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tbone
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Grey Seer
I'm not sure, as it is a unclear about how long it is supposed to last or if and when it will ever go away.

I've play it like the unit had been given "frenzy." When it loses combat it will also lose death frenzy, other than that, there no other way to stop it. That's how I've played it, seems fair.
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ratboy1018
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Lab rat hard at work
No. If it were a remains in play spell, it would say "remains in play" in it's description. It functions just like wither, once it happens, it happens.
hannanibal
 
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
You can dispel it. Just beat them in combat.
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Atropos
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Warpstone Addict
In my opinion, the effect gets nullified if they get beaten.
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Rusty Tincanne
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...you can still call me Rusty Tincanne if you want, though.

My understanding of it is that it is a RiP spell only in that the unit stays frenzied. I have never heard of it being dispelled in a subsequent turn.

Furthermore, the rules state that it is "just like frenzy..." and never mentions that it can be dispelled in subsequent turns. The only mention of how the spell's effects can disappear (after a successful cast) is by losing combat.
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turmi110
Chieftain
Another way it can be 'dispelled' is when all your rats die of exhaustion :P But I agree, no mention of being RiP, and no mention of being able to dispel it, so I'd say its is a permanent affect. Well, as permanent as frenzy that kills off your troops can be.
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Ratarsed
Grey Seer
Another thing to note is as it is a permanent effect any character in the unit that was death-frenzied, remains death frenzied if they leave the unit, which can be fatal!
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Scurrilous
Warlord
Ratarsed
Nov 25 2010, 08:32 AM
Another thing to note is as it is a permanent effect any character in the unit that was death-frenzied, remains death frenzied if they leave the unit, which can be fatal!

Are you sure about that? The rules on joining a unit state that if a unit is under the effect of a spell, then characters are under the effect when they are joined to a unit and stop being so when they leave it. I also think this applies to things like wither.

I love that skaven magic is A: powerful as hell and B: hardly restricted the way most spells are by having a type (missile, direct damage, hex, augment, etc).
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vs High Elves: 1 loss
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Ablabab
Chieftain
Death Frenzy does not affect characters leaving a unit as per the rules (see post by Scurrilous).

It is a spell that remains in play, without being a "Remains In Play" spell. The only way to get rid of it after it has been cast, is for the affected unit to lose a round of combat.

Wither, however, does continue to affect characters even if they leave they unit the spell was cast at as per the Skaven FAQ. It also affects characters joining the unit after it has been hit by Wither (which, combined with its casting cost makes it the single best spell in the Skaven arsenal).
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Ratarsed
Grey Seer
Ablabab
Nov 25 2010, 11:47 AM
Death Frenzy does not affect characters leaving a unit as per the rules (see post by Scurrilous).

It is a spell that remains in play, without being a "Remains In Play" spell. The only way to get rid of it after it has been cast, is for the affected unit to lose a round of combat.

Wither, however, does continue to affect characters even if they leave they unit the spell was cast at as per the Skaven FAQ. It also affects characters joining the unit after it has been hit by Wither (which, combined with its casting cost makes it the single best spell in the Skaven arsenal).

I character joining a withered unit would not be withered. The spell has been cast, made its impact and gone. Wither and Death Frenzy work the same way in that they effect a unit perminently so they should be treated the same way. To do otherwise is, IMO, trying weedle your way out of a disadvantage for the Skaven whilst insisting that disadvantage be applied to your opponent.
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Aeschere
Grey Seer
I am afraid you are mistaken there. This is what the FAQ says:

Q. What happens to characters that either join or leave a unit affected by Wither? Are new models that are added to the unit by spells and special rules affected by the spell?(p79)
A. All models that either join or leave the unit are affected by the spell. If a character leaves and joins another unit, he is affected by the spell, but the unit he joins is not.

So basically a character cannot spread wither but a unit can. If a character leaves an affected unit he is still affected but won't affect a new unit if he decides to join the new unit. Additionally, if a character joins an affected unit he is affected as well.

Comparing Death Frenzy to Wither makes no sense to be honest since they are two different spells. It is about the same as comparing Purple Sun with Vermintide since they both use a template.

Mutate: Oh and Death Frenzy isn't a RiP spell.
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Ratarsed
Grey Seer
What a duff FAQ answer! I've always imagined wither and Deathfrenzy to work like a fireball or other similar spells that go in do their work then end. If it is the lingering effect of magic on the unit then I don't understand why you should not be able to dispel it or why when you leave the unit you are still affected by the spell? :huh:
This is one FAQ I will not follow if I have any say. It just doesn't make sense.
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Aeschere
Grey Seer
Well, two questions get two answers :)

1) You cannot dispel it simply because the spell description doesn't say it is a Remains in Play. Although this might be a lame answer it is how it works.
2) Why Wither keeps affecting characters leaving the unit is because once the spell goes off, all models in the unit have their characteristic reduced. This is permanent. If he leaves the unit his characteristic will still be reduced.

Not following FAQ's is something that is up to you. Just remember that they are official and are enforced for tournament play. But if your playgroup agrees then there is nothing stopping you :)
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