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| Defeating Vampire Counts; How to do it? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 20th November 2010 - 09:53 AM (1,225 Views) | |
| Ablabab | 20th November 2010 - 09:53 AM Post #1 |
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Chieftain
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So I'll be playing against a VC player soon, and i gotta take him down :ph43r: He typically does: Horde of Grave Guards w/ Great Weapons (killing blow) Horde of Ghouls Skeleton bunker w/ general with that "transfer-WS-helmet". And some other crap. So how do i break him? I was thinking about a mass of slaves (2 x 50) and some warpfire throwers to put the hurt on him. Or a horde of plague monks (with a furnace) and a plague banner. But I'm not really too sure about anything much. What do you say? |
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| Saintspirit | 20th November 2010 - 10:14 AM Post #2 |
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Chieftain
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Something critical is to take out the vampire(s) quickly, otherwise the models you kill will return quite probably. The 13th spell might prove to be useful against the skellie bunker. A PCC could be nice too, with large splash against low-T units. And slaves? You should always have slaves. Many. |
My Skaven army diary | |
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| Ablabab | 20th November 2010 - 12:57 PM Post #3 |
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Chieftain
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The basic army build so far is: Grey Seer (maybe on bell) BSB 3 x 35 slaves (might go for 2 x 50) 35 clanrats (to bunker the grey seer) 40 stormvermin (just bought the models, really wanna try them out) 40 plague monks with plague banner (these should be a nice counter to his grave guard horde) 2 x 7 gutter runners w slings poison (to harass the bunker - maybe even rear charge it) Abomb. Is this completely off? |
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| Kevlar | 20th November 2010 - 02:04 PM Post #4 |
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Doomwheel Driver
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The best ghoul killer is a warlord on bonebreaker with warpstone armor, dawnstone, shield, and what ever weapon you want. Sword of might or ogre blade being good bets. Their poison won't get through a 2+/2+ armor save and they are only str 3. Grave guard are slave/warpfire vulnerable, especially if they have the expensive regen banner. Scorch too if all you have is the seer. Gutter runners can take out varghulfs pretty easily with poison slings. Keep them in dangerous terrain and he may be afraid to charge you too. Black coach is annoying, hope for some lucky cannon shots or charge it with slaves and park a doomwheel near it. |
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| Ablabab | 20th November 2010 - 02:50 PM Post #5 |
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Chieftain
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I've settled on this list for now: Choice # Equipment LORDS Grey Seer 1 Warpstone Tokens, D-scroll, Skalm Talisman of P (Lore of Plague) HEROES Chieftan 1 BSB, Storm Banner, shield Warlock Engineer 1 Lvl 1, Power Stone Warlock Engineer 1 Doomrocket CORE Clanrats 24 Shields, FC * Warpfire Thrower 1 Stormvermin 40 FC, Banner of the UnderEmpire * Warpfire Thrower 1 Skavenslaves 35 Musician Skavenslaves 35 Musician Skavenslaves 35 Musician SPECIAL Gutter Runners 7 Slings, Poison Gutter Runners 7 Slings, Poison Plague Monks 40 FC, Plague banner RARE Hell Pit Abomination 1 That's 2248 pts. Edit: Wow, this didn't translate well from Excel. Hope it is still readable. |
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| tbone | 20th November 2010 - 03:04 PM Post #6 |
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Grey Seer
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There is absolutly no reason you need a storm banner vs. vampires....they have no shooting or warmachines ( well except for banshees which would be uneffected by it) |
| Tbone's Nasty Rats | |
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| Pestilent Lord | 20th November 2010 - 04:24 PM Post #7 |
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Doomwheel Driver
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Unless of course the VC brings a Winged Horror power Vampire you'd rather not have Flying about. Or a Vampire mounted on a Hellstead or a Zombie Dragon you want slowed down a bit. Or the Black Coach gets its Flying boost and you feel like grounding it... Mostly correct though, VC don't have much worth Stormbannering. |
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“A player is never late, Dave. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when the plot dictates he should.” Skaven 7th: W/L/D 6/5/2 High Elves: 2/3/1 | |
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| Kevlar | 20th November 2010 - 06:40 PM Post #8 |
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Doomwheel Driver
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| ratwhowouldbeking | 20th November 2010 - 07:46 PM Post #9 |
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Clanrat
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1.) Take a Grey Seer. Mitigating the Vampire Counts magic phase is the only way to keep them from raising every ghoul and guard you knock down (necessary for points 4 and 5). 2.) Use lots of Slaves against his Graveguard units; Killing Blow is mitigated by the Slaves dying so easily anyway. Then a Doomwheel or a Hellpit Abom into the flank will tear them apart and will largely shrug off their return attacks. 3.) If you do take an HPA, make sure you take warpstone spikes on it. Otherwise he can throw his Ghosts at you and laugh. 4.) Use your Skryre weapons to your advantage, since he doesn't get to shoot back. VCs tend to have a lot of problems dealing with warmachines. 5.) Try to get his Ghouls and Skeletons stuck in with your Stormvermin or other reasonably killy units. He'll be consistently losing combat and losing wounds equal to how much he lost combat by, and this will allow your Slaves to get by to his more dangerous units. |
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| Paricidas | 21st November 2010 - 05:29 PM Post #10 |
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Doomwheel Driver
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Use big blocks of slaves, a unit of 30 will be torn to pieces by a red fury vampire and his grave guards before the poor rats can even spell "steadfast" |
| Ceterum censeo Altdorfem esse delendam | |
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| Nicodemus | 22nd November 2010 - 02:39 PM Post #11 |
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Clanrat
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Agreed. Bigger blocks of slaves are required, I'd recommend at least 40, but no more than 50. Let him raise his dead, those are spells that aren't targetting and killing rats. When it comes to a battle of attrition and points denial, we win. The furnace and 30-40 monks will do well, I think. 7 PCB's along side will make them even better. The Lore of Plague is my usual choice on my Seer. Wither and Plague can ruin any unit in an army, but it'll do it to T3 armies quicker. The 13th spell, although fun to use, is much less dependable and puts your Seer at risk. If you get Bless with filth, then your slaves may actually kills some stuff. I agree that killing the Vampires is inportant, but if they are too difficult to get to and you have to go out of your way, just go about business as usual. While he is replacing lost models, you should be tying up the Grave Guard and Ghouls with slaves, and surrounding him with everything else. When he is done killing your slaves, flank/rear charge them. The Warp-Fire Throwers firing into Slave combats will work nicely. If your opponent as any sense he'll target your weapon teams. Keep them behind their unit of Clanrats/Stormverim, then move them into position to fire after Slaves are stuck in, hopefully they will still be 3" from the parent unit and even better if the weapon team is behind them for hardcover (if being shot at, which won't apply to Vamps). I recommend tying up the Vargulf if you can't shoot it with the Gutter Runners. It can be a bitch if left alone. His Ethereal units will also be a problem. Your HPA with spikes will not only prevent him from being laughed at, it will probably help him slaughter them. |
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| Paricidas | 22nd November 2010 - 03:04 PM Post #12 |
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Doomwheel Driver
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Furnaces with ghouls is a very very bad matching, and he will have tons of ghouls. Graveguards with drakenhof is also not the furnaces favorite. Though I really love my furnace, it might not get really valuable targets in the usual VC list... |
| Ceterum censeo Altdorfem esse delendam | |
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| Ablabab | 22nd November 2010 - 04:25 PM Post #13 |
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Chieftain
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Seeing how i do not have a furnace, i will not be bringing one to the table
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| ratwhowouldbeking | 22nd November 2010 - 05:58 PM Post #14 |
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Clanrat
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What kinds of points limits are we talking about? At low points (<1500) those Invocations really do add up, and his Vampire is unlikely to have enough levels to take much else. I don't think 'outlasting' a VC army at low points will work out very well, as our stuff is about as prone to blowing itself up as VCs are prone to refilling their ranks. I take my Grey Seer and force his vamp to roll three dice on every Invocation or risk me dispelling it with one die; while the Grey Seer is expensive, controlling the VC magic phase is tantamount to about 50 points (or more) of regenerated models per game round. If you're playing >1500 points, my suggestions may not be as useful, I wouldn't know, I've only played lower points games. |
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| C57Black | 22nd November 2010 - 09:04 PM Post #15 |
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Warlord
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Small suggestions sir, take the power scroll on your Grey seer. His Vampire Lord may be bunkered in a unit but if you can drop the number down to at least 16 or so you can use the Power scroll to cast the Dreaded 13th and turn his undead lord into a rather grody looking clan rat. Just put your Seer on a bell and he'll have LOS anywhere. |
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