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Skaven Vs Dwarves; A dwarf horde?
Topic Started: 13th November 2010 - 02:08 PM (2,038 Views)
Grey Seer Exahm
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Gribbly
So, the guy I usually play with has gotten bored of a gunline army (or so he claims) and is now using a list with a relativly large number of dwarves. I'm playing him later today probably at a 2k game.

Off the top of my head I think he has:
Dwarf Lord whos equipment changes based on who he's fighting.
2 (3?) units of 24 dwarf warriors, ranked 6 wide I think
20 Ironbreakers
20 Slayers
12 Quarrelers
X Miners (not sure how many)
2 cannons
Organ gun
Gyrocopter

Chances are he'll deploy in standard gunline formation, artillary on a hill, infantry surrounding it.

Honestly, I'm unsure about how to go about fighting it. He keeps his infantry close together to make flank charging difficult but he DOES move forward.

Was thinking about taking two gutter runner units with poisioned slings to hopefully turn up and take care of the warmachines. As for rares, I'm not sure. Two WPC and a PCC? I'm not sure how useful the Doomwheel would be in this game. The only thing I can think of to deal with the gyrocopter is jezzails but I'm not a fan of them in 8th Ed (not had much luck with them). Anyone know of any weapons teams that could take care of them? I KNOW his tactic with the gyro is to flame things from the side or flanks while staying out of LoS to avoid it getting charged.

As for his miners, he'll definitly bring them up by whatever artillary I have, so how do I protect them from the miners?

I'm tempted to take a Grey Seer, Power Scroll and attempt to 13th Spell the Ironbreaker unit (no one has ever taken it in our gaming group yet, so it's not been banned). But then he won't be much use past that due to it being difficult to succeed with magic against dwarves. Another thought was taking Queek and a unit of Stormvermin, but he'll attempt to snipe Queek with cannons.

So, any ideas?
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Paricidas
Doomwheel Driver
Just some thoughts:

Sniping queek will be tough as he gets a 2+LoS, but as he has the special rule that he has to accept every challenge, he must not get into contact with the dwarfen lord, who would undoubtly hack him into tiny little bits before queek even has a chance to do anything.

the size of the miners is quite important, if 40 of them appear in the middle of your deployment zone by turn 2, its game over (at least it was in the games I watched).

Slayers are "easily" taken out if you throw a very large unit of slaves in their face and shoot them with gutterrunners from behind.

Dwarfs can roll as many dispell dices as they can grap with two hands, so if you bring a grey seer, bring a powerscroll and after its used up, cast strong spells with 6 dices to get IF (your seer should obviously have some ward saves :lol: ).

I would take a stormbanner and an ironcurse icon.

Stormvermin with a blade standard pose a serious thread to many dwarf units. It would be bloody, but you would probably win the CC.

A doomwheel would easily take out the gyrocopter and be very usefull all around, but with 3 pieces of artillery thats a bit risky.

Dwarfs hate ini-tests (bronze sphere)

Poison wind mortars ignore amor.

Ceterum censeo Altdorfem esse delendam
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tbone
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Grey Seer
Paricidas
Nov 13 2010, 03:58 PM
Sniping queek will be tough as he gets a 2+LoS, but as he has the special rule that he has to accept every challenge, he must not get into contact with the dwarfen lord, who would undoubtly hack him into tiny little bits before queek even has a chance to do anything.

I figured queek would be great against dwarves

he'll be striking first, 6 attacks, +1 to hit in challenges means he'll be hitting at least on 3+, plus he always wounds dwarves on 2+, combine with no armor saves, that's not to shabby. Roughly that would be 3 wounds and then the dwarf would get his ward saves.
Tbone's Nasty Rats
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Paricidas
Doomwheel Driver
If the dwarfen player is worth his salt, than queek is dead as heaven on a saturday night.

If you have agreed on playing with special charakter models, it should be clear as glass to your opponent that queek is by far the most powerful character against dwarfs. His general, unlike other generals, may carry around 150 points of magic items. He will put 0 points into magic armor, give his general a wardsave and a masterrune of lightning to gain ASF, queek will need a boatload full of luck to win against such a killer.

Addition: Dwarfbane for 25 points is a real steal and would even turn a warplockengineer into a close combat monster.
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WarpFodder
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Warlord
Def wouldnt bother with the PCC agasint dwarfs. 6's to wound everything and panic tests on Ld9 prob with a reroll. Not that great

I would agree with everything a previous poster said tho. Big unit of SV with razor std with a lord on warlitter and sword of str or anti heroes and a ward save. deployed in horde 34ish S4 AP attacks can do some dmg.

For shooting big blocks of infantry (esp 20mm bases) HATE the doomrocket. Also 2 WLCs if you get lucky you can do some major dmg to his generals unit. once the lords unit is down to less than 14 models powerscroll dreaded 13th and get ready to plonk down an extra clanrat unit!.

If you want to be nasty take a few units of 50 slaves to tie his expensive units up then bring up the warp fire throwers and let rip, S5 tears dwarfs a new one altogether. Be careful of these units tho and try to keep them close to parent units or out of LOS to prevent cannon sniping.

Also your spot on for gutter runners, if you can afford them 2 units of 6/7 with posion slings. Remember tho they dont have to sneaky infiltrate. Ive been getting better results with them lately with normal scouting since it was improved.

Im not loving the new rules for the the Doomwheel since it can no longer break ranks and you have to move it whatever you roll on 3D6. Id keep it to Zzzap monsters not a dwarf killer at all IMO.

Anyway good luck in your game and let the rest of us ratses know how you get on.
If we weren't meant to eat animals they wouldn't be made of food!
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Bakish
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Stormvermin
Surprised no one have mentioned ABomb yet. In my last game that bugger broke warriors on the charge, overran into ironbreakers that were in combat with SV, broke em, SV ran down, got bsb. Next turn I were lucky with the distance roll and made it all the way into the anvil and managed to kill it on the charge. 2 turns; 1700ish VP
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reddogfish77
Grey Seer
dwarfs are ok... in cc... they are not choas warriors by any measure sure their tough but large slaves blocks will take them ages to work through...

I would suggest a grey seer... either mounted or not and at least 6 units of 50 or more slaves... if you have the rats.

plague monks arent great.... but i would seiously consider plague censor bearers. they could take care of a gyrocopter in a cinch. and while dwarfs will pass their T tests on 4 or less you will strike first against their troops and manage to get plenty of attacks in... also they are less suseptible to shooting.

maybe 3 units of 10

pretty expensive but it is better than the usually... power scroll 13th. heaps of slaves. brass orb and doomrocket... i mean... you gotta get tired of the same lisrt
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Paricidas
Doomwheel Driver
Bakish
Nov 13 2010, 11:50 PM
Surprised no one have mentioned ABomb yet. In my last game that bugger broke warriors on the charge, overran into ironbreakers that were in combat with SV, broke em, SV ran down, got bsb. Next turn I were lucky with the distance roll and made it all the way into the anvil and managed to kill it on the charge. 2 turns; 1700ish VP.

A-bombs are very effectiv at anything, thats like saying: "Take a general" (no offense intended) ;). It is not so good against dwarfs beceause every warmachine can have a flame-rune for 5 points, which will cancel the regeneration of the a-bomb.

Dwarfs have some specialies:

While they are not chaoswarriors, there are not many armies that will come closer to a chaos warrior. Even the usual dwarfen trash from the core selection steps on the field of battle with 4 weaponskill and 4 toughness.

Everyone and their mom can buy a twohanded weapon in a dwarfen army. While these weapons are quite expensiv, the dwarfs do not lose anything (but points) when taking them. They are at ini2, they always strike last against most everyone, so twohanded weapons are avaluable choice. Its quite funny to see some crossbowmen charge a unit of ratogres and bash the mutatants head in, dwarfs can do that.

Dwarfs have only one attack (if they are not slayers). While this one attack will often be quite deadly, they have their problems with large enemy units. A dwarfen player will need very very long to cut through a unit of 40+ slaves.

Dwarfs dont have magic items, they have runes which make things magic. Therefor, if the dwarf player knows who he is fighting, he can tailor his items to match the enemy army.

Dwarfen artillery is extemly resilant in CC because of some special rules, the occasional skirmisher/flanker will often be smased into pieces by the warmachine crew. Gutterrunners with poison slings are a must in this scenarios.

Runes and machinist will turn warmachines into weapons of mass destruction. However, there are special rules that will allow only certain combinations, make sure that this organ gun is not st10 rerollable missfire invisible whatsnot, thats illegal, most rune scan only be put on certain (basic) warmachinmes like cannons or bolthrowers (and unfortunatly, stonestrowers...)
Ceterum censeo Altdorfem esse delendam
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Grey Seer Exahm
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Gribbly
Hey, posting an update. It went really badly. You know those games where everything that can go wrong, does? Yeah, all but a few of my units were fleeing come my turn 2.

Almost entierly because of the Doomwheel.

On my first turn it trundled forward 5", and zapped a bunch of Storm Vermin, then it got one-shotted by a lucky cannonball, causing a unit of clanrats, slaves, two weapons teams to flee.

On the second turn both units of Gutter Runners turned up, throw their poisoned stones at the cannons, between both units they caused a massive ONE WOUND. Anyway, not really thinking it would work against Dwarves anyway, I tried to cast Wither on a unit of them with two dice, resulting in a double 6. I then rolled a 3 on the Miscast table, resulting in most of the unit of Storm Vermin to be dead, yet the Grey Seer suspiciously unharmed. I thought "They're Ld 8 (Grey Seer+ a rank) and the BSB is in the unit, I'll be fine.", of course, this was when I roll a 9. Re-roll for the BSB, and get 9 again, rolling the EXACT SAME NUMBERS ON THE EXACT SMAE DICE. They broke and ran away, unable to rally, they ran past a slave unit, who cared not for their general's cowerdice, however, a warp lightning cannon and another weapon team did. Seeing no other use, I fired a Doomrocket at the gyrocopter, I needed 24", rolled 4 dice and got...24"! However I failed to wound.


t this point, all I had that wasn't running away was a unit of slaves and clanrats who were in combat with the Lord's unit of Iron Breakers both on the front rank, which I feel was a cheap bit of rules lawyering by my opponent as the slaves could easily have hit his flank, a warp lightning cannon, and two units of Gutter Runners ready to be grape-shot, and unit of clanrats in combat with a unit of (not Withered) warriors and small unit of slaves. The unit fighting the warriors broke, taking the slaves with them as they ran.

It was at this point I decided there wasn't much point in continuing on.

I'm thourghly convinced my Grey Seer was up to something. Getting a miscast where he took a Str10 hit unscathed AND escaped being sucked into the warp seems a little to suspicious to me.
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Paricidas
Doomwheel Driver
LOL, well, not much you could have done here.

The Gutterrunners are indeed not as good against dwarfen cannons as they are against other armies. First off they have a higher amor save (at least I think so) secondly, when they have a machinist attached to them, they get better in CC, they dont flee and they may haver the rune of quick reloading. This nice little "item" will let the warmachine fire every turn.
So even if the dwarf missfires and your gutterrunners kill 2 of the crew, he will still get grapeshot off.

Putting a grey seer into a horde of SV is also quite a risky tactic, as you have proven so well in your game :D
Ceterum censeo Altdorfem esse delendam
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reddogfish77
Grey Seer
the funny thing is this is a really good lesson to learn... because really... the best army and the best laid plans of mice and men come down to the roll of the dice... i have won games i should have lost and lost ones i cant believe i didnt win...

but with a average rolling your next game should turn out to be far more enjoyable ... and result in a few beard things getting hung out to dry.
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racerstephen


Quote:
 
this organ gun is not st10 rerollable missfire invisible whatsnot

Organ guns cannot have runes!

Gyro Copters can only fly 10 inches and shoot or 20 inches and not shoot. So they are not very good anymore.

I destroyed a Dwarf army recently. He had 2 units of 50! Rangers, 2 Stone Throwers and the Anvil.I just took my 4 Poison Wind Mortars (Always wound on 5+ not modified by opponent's toughness) and my two WLC and had my way with those 2 units.

Also a 15 point Warlock Engineer with the Doom Rocket that is skitterleaped next to the dwarves is very nice.

My 60 strong slave unit made sure he eihter had to shoot blind at my other units or at them.

Hope that helps
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racerstephen


What is the A-Bomb?
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Moggrash
Clanrat
racerstephen
Nov 18 2010, 09:27 PM
What is the A-Bomb?

Hellpit Abombinatin. It works just like an Atomic Bomb, therefor it's namesake.
You kill everything and don't get many friends :D
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racerstephen


Thanks
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