| Tactical advice needed; playing a 2vs2 with OnG, WE and WoC | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 11th November 2010 - 10:47 AM (351 Views) | |
| Krogholt | 11th November 2010 - 10:47 AM Post #1 |
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Chieftain
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Hi. As the title says, I'm going to play a 2 vs 2 game against/with Orcs n' Goblins, Wood Elves, and Warriors of Chaos. We will all be fielding 1500 pts, and the teams are random. So I would like to hear what you would suggest to put in my list against these opponents. Against WoC my PWM usually proves to be worth every point, but against WE and OnG I will not have to worry about armour as much, and I think a WFT might be a better choice overall (WE are mostly skirmished, and therefore the PWM template seems inefficient. They also have flammable creatures that would love the fire. Against OnG I might be able to pull off some panic tests, seeing as their Ld is somewhat comparable to ours, and the higher strength seems more important than the ability to ignore armour. Against WoC it negates a lot of armour, and is excellent against Ogres / Dragon Ogres) I know the OnG player is prone to use a LOT of bolthrowers, and I therefore think the Storm banner is a no-brainer (tough luck if I'm on the same team as the WE, but who really cares about the tree huggers?). I have considered the idea of baiting fanatics with a naked engineer, but this kind of requires a Grey seer to (be sure to) get Skitterleap, and putting 240+ points in the lord section seems... a lot at these points. |
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| Paricidas | 11th November 2010 - 11:38 AM Post #2 |
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Doomwheel Driver
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This armies are all so completely different that there is not really one answer for that question. The fact that I dont know about how much points we are talking does not make it easier. If you take a stormbanner, it will probably only come to full use if you are paired with the WoC, all other armies (including your partner) will be seriously crippeled by it. I would take units that are real nobrainers, so they will be effictive against almost anything = slaves, clanrats, WFTs, WLCs, A-bombs and DWs. The grey seer has the problem that he may (or may not) have to share the powerdicepool with a mighty (or rather unimpressive) wizard, shamen etc. of your partner, so thats a difficult decision. On the other hand a grey seer can be tooled against special armies like noone else, as he has accsess to two lores after you know your opponent/ally. The casting lvls of both lores are also quite low, so they would be even castable with just a half power dice pool. Make sure you bring your own BSB with you... |
| Ceterum censeo Altdorfem esse delendam | |
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| Krogholt | 11th November 2010 - 11:52 AM Post #3 |
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Chieftain
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In case this was not clear; each player will bring 1500 pts, so its a 3000 vs. 3000 pts game. Just to clarify, I don't expect any units that will definitely win it all, just more of a pointer towards which units may be a good idea, or which units that should not be fielded. Personally I think that rat ogres will hardly stand a chance, since I will be up against at least one ranged opponent (WE or OnG), possibly both... They will probably be shot to pieces long before they reach CC. |
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| Krogholt | 18th November 2010 - 01:08 PM Post #4 |
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Chieftain
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The game took place last night, and I just felt like sharing a few things from it: The OnG player decided to change to Empire last minute before the game (after everyone else had made their armies, and he decided to field a gunline army (2 great cannons, 2 mortars, 1 helblaster, 2*10 riflemen (whatever these are called), 2 engineers with hochland longrifles, 5 outriders, and some irrellevant infantry blocks, a lvl 2 mage and a general. The Wood Elf player chose an army consisting almost solely of dryads, 7 way watchers, a lord on a horse, a unit of wardancers, and ~6 wild riders. No mage. The WoC player fielded 5 Chaos knights, a lvl 4 slaneesh mage, a hero, 10 warriors, and 10 marauder horsemen marked khorne with flails... Oh, and a hellcannon. And I fielded a rather soft army, as I didn't expect to be up against anything mean, but rather to have a friendly game: A grey seer with a scrying stone, a chieftain BSB with a shield, a warlock engineer with a doomrocket, +1 lvl magic, and condenser, 2*30 clanrats with shield, 2*20 clanrats, 3 Rat ogres, 2 PWM, 1 WFT, one Ratling Gun, and 2*5 poison sling GRs. The game ended up being a Battle for the Pass (the one where you play along the narrow edge of the table), and the Empire and WoC was against me and the Wood Elves... That. was. brutal... They deployed so far back on their table that it was only possible to deploy one unit of scouts behind them in a corner; set up their entire gunline, and waited for us to come to them with the WoC ready to take on anyone who closed in on them. Needless to say, the game did not turn in my (our) favour anytime during the battle. * None of my weapon teams managed to kill anything (only got to shoot twice with one of my PWM, and it scattered out of range of everything). The rest got shot up by mortars and Hochland Longrifles. *My Rat ogres got completely decimated by Chaos warriors in close combat (it was a choice of either charging them, or standing with my flank towards 2 cannons, and in front of a helblaster), *My one unit of Gutter runners (the ones placed as scouts) got destroyed by chain lightning in turn one, the other team didn't turn up until turn 4 (and we only had time to play 4 turns), the waywatchers were also destroyed by chain lightning (though not before killing 2 chaos knights with killing blow shots) Other noteworthy events of the games are: Me casting plague on a unit of Chaos warriors, killing two, plague continuing on onto the empire generals main unit (with his mage, general, and 20 spearmen), killing 12. My plan was to make them flee, but unfortunately they were immune to psychology because they were standing next to a dwarven brewhouse in their deployment zone... Generally I had a rough time casting magic since we had to split the power dice pool, but my ally didn't have any spellcasters, and therefore didn't draw any dispel dice from our opponents. Likewise, I had a problem with the empire casting chain lightning against a Wood Elf unit (so I wasn't allowed to dispell it), and then it jumped onto on of my units afterwards... In one round, it jumped 5 times, hitting 3 units of 12 dryads, 2 units of clanrats, and a rattling gun... In our turn four I finally rolled a decent powerdice amout (12), channeled 1 dice, and had fortunately just remembered that I had D3 warptokens... So in a desperate attempts to gain a few VP, I skitterleaped my grey seer down into the middle of the combat (we had finally reached the gunline and therefore some close combat), and threw 5 dice into a Cloud of Corruption... Managed to panic a unit of riflemen that fled of the table, kill an engineer, 1 chaos knight (the last of the unit), a few spearmen, some militia, and unfortunately 3 of my newly arrived gutter runners, and a few clanrats... By the end of the battle, I think we lost the game, but only a minor loss. *The chaos player had lost everything except his hellcannon in the last round(wood elf lord killing Chaos lvl 4 sorceror), combined combat with wardancers and clanrats (with chieftain BSB) vs. Chaos warriors; broke them (despite stubborn) and caught them in the final close combat round of the game. *The empire player had only lost a 10 man unit of militia, 10 riflemen, 1 engineer, 1 great cannon, 1 helblaster, and 2 mortars. * The wood elf player had lost 2 complete units of dryads, his waywatchers, and his wild riders. * I lost all my weapon teams, one unit of gutter runners, and one unit of 20 clanrats died completely (the others were reduced to 4, 5 and 10, but actually held)... Actually we may have won points wise (haven't counted), but had the game continued further we were going to lose... We had 4 dryads fighting the hellcannon (no way there were going to win), 3 wardancers, my grey seer standing in the middle of the battlefield, alone, right in front of 3 outrider with multiple(3) shots and 10 riflemen, and with 3 units of clanrats ready to flee if someone as much as farted on them... So, a little post-game thoughts: Don't bring a friendly or soft list against these friends... Next time, I'm going to pick the 13th with my grey seer (and not avoid it because I think its unfair), powerscroll, 2 WLCs, plenty of slaves, and the storm banner... Empire troops are extremely squishy in close combat? Even clanrats takes them out with ease. Its incredibly hard to use any of our weapon teams if your enemy is just sitting and hiding at ~40" away... You need to march for a couple of turns, and I have no idea how to get a shot with the WFT without exposing it to your enemys shooting if they won't charge. Don't charge warriors in the front with Rat ogres... They will just get chopped up before they have a chance to strike back. Anyway, it was still good fun playing, with beer and pizza, and some nice guys. Cheers |
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| CapAmr05 | 18th November 2010 - 06:24 PM Post #5 |
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Why didn't you have any slaves? Without something to screen your units, or rush the gunline it looks like you were setup for disaster from the get-go. --Cap |
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| DNA Maniac | 18th November 2010 - 08:55 PM Post #6 |
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Stormvermin
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battle for the pass was unlucky i guess but in a pitch battle it takes only 2 turns to charge and 1 march for a wft ![]() Try some WLC they are always good and 13th is not cheesy, but some my groan on to combine it with PS. But i guess u dont have to split your dispell dices. it was good report, thx for sharing.
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| Krogholt | 19th November 2010 - 08:28 AM Post #7 |
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Chieftain
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Are you sure about that? I actually don't remember reading anything about that part, only that allied armies in a desparate alliance aren't allowed to dispell spells that target your allys unit - but if we could have split the dispel dice as we pleased, that would have helped a lot. @CapAmr05: yeah, I know... Should have brought some slaves, and I will the next time ![]() @DNA: ... and a couple of WLCs... That would have helped to even the odds out a little. At least, it would have forced them to move towards us as well, instead of just sitting still and shooting. |
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