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Help Against Orcs & Gobbos in 8th Ed.
Topic Started: 9th November 2010 - 12:12 AM (1,031 Views)
Velvetpaws
Breeding Pit Interloper
ratboy1018
Nov 10 2010, 11:45 AM
If your plan is to shoot into slave combat, you cannot put an engineer in the unit. Once he's in there, the unit is no longer expendable.

Damn-damn! Another ingenious plan foiled! I guess I'll take the Engineer out before charing in the unit, and make sure my general is nearby to give them the Ld they need.

By the way, under the Steadfast rule, it says the unit tests on unmodified Leadership. Do our Strength In Numbers units still get to add their rank bonus for Leadership? In other words, would the Slave unit we've been talking about be Ld 10 or Ld 7 if it were within 10" of the Warlord General?
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Velvetpaws
Breeding Pit Interloper
Velvetpaws
Nov 10 2010, 02:10 PM
ratboy1018
Nov 10 2010, 11:45 AM
If your plan is to shoot into slave combat, you cannot put an engineer in the unit. Once he's in there, the unit is no longer expendable.

Damn-damn! Another ingenious plan foiled! I guess I'll take the Engineer out before charing in the unit, and make sure my general is nearby to give them the Ld they need.

By the way, under the Steadfast rule, it says the unit tests on unmodified Leadership. Do our Strength In Numbers units still get to add their rank bonus for Leadership? In other words, would the Slave unit we've been talking about be Ld 10 or Ld 7 if it were within 10" of the Warlord General?

Typo up there: I meant to type "within 12 inches," rather than 10 inches.
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Aelyn
Clanrat
Velvetpaws
Nov 10 2010, 10:20 PM
Velvetpaws
Nov 10 2010, 02:10 PM
ratboy1018
Nov 10 2010, 11:45 AM
If your plan is to shoot into slave combat, you cannot put an engineer in the unit. Once he's in there, the unit is no longer expendable.

Damn-damn! Another ingenious plan foiled! I guess I'll take the Engineer out before charing in the unit, and make sure my general is nearby to give them the Ld they need.

By the way, under the Steadfast rule, it says the unit tests on unmodified Leadership. Do our Strength In Numbers units still get to add their rank bonus for Leadership? In other words, would the Slave unit we've been talking about be Ld 10 or Ld 7 if it were within 10" of the Warlord General?

Typo up there: I meant to type "within 12 inches," rather than 10 inches.

Not meaning to sound harsh, but there is a Mutate button to allow you to change this sort of thing. Just letting you know.
Battle record with Skaven: 5-1-0 (w-l-d)
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Velvetpaws
Breeding Pit Interloper
Aelyn
Nov 10 2010, 03:23 PM
Velvetpaws
Nov 10 2010, 10:20 PM
Velvetpaws
Nov 10 2010, 02:10 PM
ratboy1018
Nov 10 2010, 11:45 AM
If your plan is to shoot into slave combat, you cannot put an engineer in the unit. Once he's in there, the unit is no longer expendable.

Damn-damn! Another ingenious plan foiled! I guess I'll take the Engineer out before charing in the unit, and make sure my general is nearby to give them the Ld they need.

By the way, under the Steadfast rule, it says the unit tests on unmodified Leadership. Do our Strength In Numbers units still get to add their rank bonus for Leadership? In other words, would the Slave unit we've been talking about be Ld 10 or Ld 7 if it were within 10" of the Warlord General?

Typo up there: I meant to type "within 12 inches," rather than 10 inches.

Not meaning to sound harsh, but there is a Mutate button to allow you to change this sort of thing. Just letting you know.

I did not know that, ratty. Thanks for the tip! :D
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ratboy1018
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Lab rat hard at work
In that situation, you would get ld 10, 7 from the warlord, 3 for ranks in the slave unit.
hannanibal
 
Ki Ko Ka Ko Ki (That's the sound of a transformer transforming)

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Pestilent Lord
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Doomwheel Driver
Velvetpaws
Nov 10 2010, 05:10 PM
ratboy1018
Nov 10 2010, 11:45 AM
If your plan is to shoot into slave combat, you cannot put an engineer in the unit. Once he's in there, the unit is no longer expendable.

Damn-damn! Another ingenious plan foiled! I guess I'll take the Engineer out before charing in the unit, and make sure my general is nearby to give them the Ld they need.

By the way, under the Steadfast rule, it says the unit tests on unmodified Leadership. Do our Strength In Numbers units still get to add their rank bonus for Leadership? In other words, would the Slave unit we've been talking about be Ld 10 or Ld 7 if it were within 10" of the Warlord General?

There was an Errata on Steadfast. The newer version is that Steadfast is 'unaffected by the combat result'. Since SiN modifies Leadership, it works just fine along with Steadfast. So Skaven have a strong chance for taking break tests at Ld 10 if they have a Lord general nearby. It also means that Doom & Darkness works against Steadfast/Stubborn units, which is fun if you have armies with access to it.
“A player is never late, Dave. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when the plot dictates he should.”
Skaven 7th:
W/L/D
6/5/2
High Elves:
2/3/1
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Daemon Sultan
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Clanrat
I swear by a Grey Seer with the Staff of Sorcery. This will give you a +5 to dispell, effectiveley dimminishing the power of his shamans.

Fanatics look tricky, but it's just a matter of pushing your slaves in front of them. They will die a horrible death, tho, so... that may be something on your conscience.

The ratogre champion is indeed a monster, the equal of many heroes and some lords in combat. Their speed is a great asset in the art of flanking, but be carefull who you attack. Their only protection is T4.

Good luck, and bring us victory!
Honestly not a Dalek.
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Clanseer Skabrius
Lord of the Undermountain
Daemon Sultan has it right;just move your slave unit of 20 onto some fanatics and laugh. If the slaves kill 2 fanatics like that they've earned back their points.
Gutter runners also work extremely well against the goblin crewmen of the war machines. ( as scouts or infiltrators)
Another unit I'd suggest is the Poisoned wind mortar; it has worked very well for me against large blocks of Orc infantry.
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Paricidas
Doomwheel Driver
One problem that has not been mentioned yet is certain a magic standard, (I dont know its name, but I think its more than 50 points, so its a battle standard).

This nice little items gives as many dispell dices as the BSB has rank bonus, i.e. 3.
Altough I have not seen it being used in 8th, I rember some battles in 7th, where a well shielded goblin-unit with this standard really put the wind out of the opponents magic-phase sails.
Add in the staff of power dice stealing and your grey seer gets really crippeled during his magic phase...
Ceterum censeo Altdorfem esse delendam
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skavenmatt
Stormvermin
I love skitterleaping a 15pt warlock engineed in between night goblin units with fanatics. the 15 pts die off, but the fanatics run rampant all over the O&G players turf. If you can't fit between them, just stick him in front of them where you draw get multiple units' fanatics out. easy peasy, fanatics are wasted, if you can get the spell off it's golden. Plus orcs and goblins can't shoot their own fanatics, so they have to deal with all the shananigans or take the hits left and right. Either way, fanatics cost alot more than a warlock engineer.
Gutter runners w/ poisoned slings take care of war machines, warp-fire throwers melt faces, no other problems unless he gets off the super waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh spell, whatever it's called. 2d6 inches foreward with every unit, reroll misses in combat with every unit, and alot of dead slaves.
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catandy
Clanrat
Skitterleaping a naked engineer is a known tactic. He will dispel skitterleap in the first two turns. But try it anyway - its so fun.
Get gutter runners to take out his gunline. Remember not to put them withing 8" of his nightgoblins (fanatics). I've made that mistake a few times :KA-BOOM:
If he fields the dispel banner - nuke that block with a plague claw catapult (bring one).
As the Old Greyseer was lying on his deathbed he passed on a few words of wisdom to his son:

- War is not about winning son, its about your opponents losing more than you do.

- But dad, if your opponents lose more than you do, you still win the battle, so its all the same, isn't it?

- You are so young my son.....worthy opponents are on your side of the battlefield.....
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Velvetpaws
Breeding Pit Interloper
Thanks for all the great advice. Here's the list I plan to take:

Warlord: Litter, Warp Augmented Weapon, Talisman of Protection
Grey Seer
Chieftain BSB with Storm Banner
Chieftain with Halberd
2 WLEs to run out or be Skitterleaped out to draw fanatics, also to bolster Slave Ld
2 Units of 50 Slaves with Musicians
1 unit of 20 Slaves with Musician
30 Clanrats, Mus and Std with Doom Flayer Weapon Team
25 Clanrats, Mus and Std with Poisoned Wind Mortar
20 Clanrats, Mus and Std (to bodyguard Seer)
24 Giant rats, plus 1 Master Moulder with GW and 3 Packmasters
1 Warp Lightning Cannon
1 Abomination
1 Giant Rat Torpedo with 5 rats and 1 Packmaster
2 Units of 5 Gutter Runners with Poisoned Weapons and Slings

So that's the list. My only big worry is that the banner of +3 dispel dice will nerf my Grey Seer. If I didn't need magic defense so badly, I'd skip taking the Seer altogether. Can't do that, though.

Any advice, either in revising the list or tips on tactics when using it?

Thanks, rats!!!!

Ve'vetpaws
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Bakish
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Stormvermin
Looks good, but your seer is a tad naked. Maybe find room for a dispel scroll there, to stop that one Waaagh spell that'll make or break the game
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Velvetpaws
Breeding Pit Interloper
Bakish
Nov 11 2010, 01:52 PM
Looks good, but your seer is a tad naked. Maybe find room for a dispel scroll there, to stop that one Waaagh spell that'll make or break the game

Oh, sorry to mention, the Plague Priest on the Furnace has the dispel scroll. In fact, I somehow negelcted to put the Plague Priest and the 25 Plague Monks pushing the thing on this post altogether! My bad, sorry.

It's a 2550 point game btw.
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Velvetpaws
Breeding Pit Interloper
Okay, thanks in large part to all your great advice, I managed to thump the orc player tonight. He took a VERY hard list, which included Grimgore Ironhide and his Black Orc Immortals, a unit of 6 Trolls, the Banner that gives him +3 Dispel dice for ranks, a level 2 and a level 4 Orc Shaman (so he had all 6 big Whaagh spells) 4 Bolt Throwers, 1 Doom Diver, and 1 Rock Lobba. Oh, and a unit of Night Goblins with 3 Fanatics. He also had a unit of 30 Boyz and a BSB tooled up for close combat.

We generated the Meeting Engagement Scenario, and he had the good fortune of rolling for his reserves only one unit: his night goblins!! He was able to bring them in on turn 2 and have the fanatics spring onto my right flank. He ran off a unit of 20 slaves and hit my Furnace and its pushing unit twice!

My Gutter Runners, with the new Scouting rules, were able to get in on his War Machines' flank on turn one. They shot on turn one (and against the odds, did only one wound), then rolled through the war machines through close combat in turns 2 and three. The Storm Banner shut down his shooting for one turn, but it was enough. His shooting was scary, but didn't get a chance to do anything to me.

His hth element was 3 units of 30 each of Savage Orcs, Black Orcs (Grimgor's immortals) and regular Boyz. My Abomb hit the flank of his savage orcs, while a unit of 25 Clannies with the Halberd-toting Hero and the Hamster Ball (aka Doomflayer Weapon Team) hit the front. Needless to say, the Savage Orcs evaporated. My Furnace got charged by his Boyz (which had his BSB with them), and lost the first round of combat, but beat him bloody on my subsequent round and ran them down. During all this, my two units of 50 Slaves held up Grimgor's unit and the Trolls. It took less time than I thought for those slaves to get broken (three rounds of combat), but by then I was in a position to hit him with shooting and even got lucky (considering his OTT magic defense) to kill 14 Black Orcs with the Dreaded 13th Spell. I couldn't get rid of those last two units By the end of the game, he only had Grimgor, about 10 Black Orcs, and 5 Trolls left. It was sweet -- especially owing how beardy his list was.

If I had to do it over again, I think I would take larger units of Slaves for my Anvil units, to ensure they can hold up for a good 4 rounds of combat. Also, I should have cast the 13th Spell on his Trolls, since all six would have been turned into skaven, which would have been SWEET! Dev

Thanks again for all the great advice, fellow vermin. Next up: Chaos Mortals on Saturday.
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