| I need some help for a Skaven vs high elves 3k!~ | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: 5th November 2010 - 10:20 PM (445 Views) | |
| The Screaming Rat | 5th November 2010 - 10:20 PM Post #1 |
![]()
|
hey Guys! Getting ready to fight some high elves... I played them about 3 months ago and their swordmasters kicked my butt... alot! any suggestions? The Screaming Rat has questioned |
![]() |
|
| Atropos | 6th November 2010 - 12:11 AM Post #2 |
![]()
Warpstone Addict
|
I love to shoot Swordmasters with my WFT's and/or Doomrocket. I would take a Grey Seer with Powerscroll and the Dreaded 13th spell. PG bunkers are quite common nowadays in those HE armies. Bring templates, magic, slaves (of course), weapon teams (WFT's work quite nice against HE as I've told you already), WE's with toys, and a combination of whatever you like. HPA's love to eat elves for dinner. Then again, PCC's could work against big blocks of infantry (not PG though). I would personally take Plague Monks with the Plague Banner. A Furnace could be a great addition too. And since you're playing 3k, you could also consider taking a Bell. Any more specific questions? |
![]() |
|
| ratboy1018 | 6th November 2010 - 01:08 AM Post #3 |
|
Lab rat hard at work
|
Do not fight a big unit of sword masters. You will not win. Do your best to kill them with shooting and magic before you engage them. Not much in the warhammer universe will stand up to a big unit of sword masters in HtH. |
| |
![]() |
|
| KorruptingInfluence | 6th November 2010 - 01:55 AM Post #4 |
![]()
|
I just played a 3k game today against HE. I'm new to Skaven, but I annihilated his army to the point he gave up halfway through the 3rd turn. I had enormous success with 4 units of 20 slaves with slings, each with a lvl 1 Warlock. I made 4 mobile firing units and they decimated Shadow Warriors, Reavers, killed Dragon Princes, plus were just damn annoying all around. He brought 30 Swordmasters, I had 70 Stormvermin. I threw 2 Swarms in his path to irritate him while I positioned a large Clanrat unit (50) just ahead of the Stormvermin. When he crushed the Swarms, he overran into the Clanrats , not realizing they were truly in the way. I was able to countercharge with the Stormvermin and by the end of the battle the combat res was like 20-14 me. I broke and ran down the Swordmasters! |
| Commission Sculpting/Conversion Work: jasonmsantiago@gmail.com | |
![]() |
|
| Paricidas | 6th November 2010 - 06:28 AM Post #5 |
|
Doomwheel Driver
|
If I rolled that many 5s and 6s in a game, I hope that this would not happen for my to-hit rolls with slave-slings. Slings on slaves are the most useless thing in the whole army book. And the amount of troops needed to win CC against Swordmasters was also overwhelming (2 swarms, 50 CR and 70SV). For the same points the HE-player could have bought 2 units of 25 swordmasters and they would have perhaps/probably destroyed those rats. -As has been said before: Do not fight swordmasters (at least not with anything that is worth more than 3 points = slaves). -Imho phoenix guards are at least as badass as the swordmasters, as they get a 4+ ward save and have two str4 attacks. -Spearelfs with mindrazor are also a funny thing to watch If the HE-player chooses to take a lore that can not buff his own troops, chances are good that he will have one (big and expensive) unit that is immune to magic, so also the 13th is not going to be a guaranteed kill. How to counter that pointy eared nuisance has already been mentioned, shooting shooting shooting in all his lovely template forms. One word for the magic phase: If the enemy HE-player comes with big blocks (anything with more than 30 models), plague will kill more models, will be easier to cast and leaves you with more PD left than the 13th. Just check out which units have wardsave/immunity with some low lvl spells before casting plague on the immune 40 man swordmaster block. |
| Ceterum censeo Altdorfem esse delendam | |
![]() |
|
| Stripsteak | 6th November 2010 - 07:12 AM Post #6 |
|
Warlord
|
not to rain on your win too much, but i don't think you faced a very good player, or at least a weaker list. And/or, you had a lot of luck on your side. he brought shadow warriors and reavers. neither are really good choices for HE at the moment, unless you are using the sw to bunker mages. Both units are easily maneuverable enough to avoid slaves with slings, even if multiple units are trying to target them they should still be able to avoid one unit easily enough. against the SW you're also atleast at -2, if not -3 to hit (long range, vs skirmishers, multishot?). unless he just moved hit shadow warriors right infront of your guys and you didn't multishot. Even against dragon princes it seems rather lucky, they are still pretty high M so likely hitting on -1 for range or -2 if you multi shot. if just -1 that means they positioned poorly and you hitting about 3-5 times against their 2+ armor maybe getting 1 wound. but even then they should be close enough to put in a nice charge against whatever just shot them, unless he had really bad movement. To be blunt something is just wrong/missing about that SM story... first off, he played poorly he should have just held and reformed into horde if he wasn't already. With him charging; something was not positioned properly, and/or you got amazingly lucky. SM hit on 3s with reroll, wound on 2s no armor saves. and flanking him just lets him get more attacks. sv hit on 4s wound on 3s, he gets a 6up. cr hit on 4 wound on 4 and 5up save. which translates to CR wound 16.7% of the time, SV-27.8%, SM 74.1% against clanrats, and 55.6% against SV of which only the minimal ammount of SM should be directing attacks that way No matter how wide the units were he should have positioned to limit the SV flank by one file(did this happen?). your best case is your both are in horde, and he isn't so it would be attacks: CR-21 + SV-21 vs SM-19(14 against CR/5 vs SV) wounds: CR-3.5, SV-5.83 (9.4) vs SM-13.2 he should have banner so you'll get +4 (ranks, and flank) 13.4vs13.2...and this is the average of the best case scenario for skaven. SM 6 wide: CR-4 wounds, SV 5 wounds, SM 13-14 kills you should expect to nearly tie SM 7 wide: CR-4-5, SV 5, SM 15-16 wounds. you shouldn't expect to win. SM horde: CR-5, SV 3-4, SM 29-30 wounds. you should not even think about this. even if you had the razor banner in the SV that only puts it up to 33.3% to wound. In the best case scenario that gives you 1.16 more wounds. the only way you could bring your full SV attacks to bear would be if your clanrats were 5 wide, and he didn't intentionally offset the bases, which he could use his charge move to do, and still abide by the maximize base contact on charge rules...but really this isn't in your favor since to gain those 3 SV attacks would mean losing 11 CR attacks...without his SM really losing anything. even with characters which i'm guessing were in your SV unit, and should have been in his SM unit at that size they should have balanced out unless one side had dramatically more characters. HE characters are slightly more killy than Skaven ones since they have higher WS and rerolls. assuming GW or equivalent S bonus for both going for kills from RnF warlord vs SM - 4+/2+ @41.6% = 1.7 wounds per warlord prince vs CR/SV - 3+reroll/2+ @74% = 2.96 wounds per prince. you'd almost need to bring 2 warlords to each prince in that unit to balance out the RnF killing. Skaven and HE are the two armies I play, man the IoB announcement was so awesome :D. really your best bet is large slave units to tarpit his lines, and than hit him in the flank with HPAs, Doomwheels. or just magic/shoot him to death. Skaven just can't really do combat that well against HE units. against his base troops seaguard and spearman if you can get a flank charge with infantry it's probably worth it. against the elite infantry i wouldn't spend too much time trying for it until they are weakened. Pheonix Guard you aren't going to kill them WS5, HA and 4+ ward and they cause fear. White Lions, they'll be stubborn anyway and will just hurt you a lot while you whittle them down. Sword masters as pointed out by numbers above will just chew through skaven troops. Since HE strike first, and their main core use spears a lot of HE players will be defensive waiting for you to charge. The best way to counter this is to just not charge, magic and shoot them down. they can't bring large numbers of units so each loss is pretty important to them eventually they'll have to engage you in combat to avoid continual losses. This is where the large slave blocks come in...tarpit them and continue to shoot/magic them. I would highly recommend the catapult. sure its S2 but elves are only T3 so it's still going to hurt. Since elves are t3 you're also better off with focusing on volume of fire of stronger attacks. I'd favor plague monks. Also hellpit over the doomwheel, the elves will be steadfast and just kill/break the doomwheel the next round. If you do bring a doomwheel it's probably best saved for taking out cavalry. something to watch out for: Lore of Death on a prince, it's fairly popular...he'll go for the signature spell and will eat your characters souls! dispel this or just stay as far away from this guy as possible.
PG don't get two attacks, well except for their champion...but they are still nearly impossible to kill :/ i mean clanrats really have no hope. 4+ to hit, 4+ to wound, 5+ armor, 4+ ward...you have an 8% chance |
![]() |
|
| Daemon Sultan | 6th November 2010 - 11:07 AM Post #7 |
|
Clanrat
|
Plague priests are all you need. Unless you can afford a grey seer affcorse. Give it the lore of plague, a lot of spells are devastating against elves. Pestilent breath does some nice extra damage on those t3 models, and it can be used in close combat. Bless with filth I'm not too crazy about against High Elves, but I tend to cast it on ratswarms for maximum effect. Wither is my favorite spell. Reducing an enemy units T for the rest of the game? Cast this twice on Teclis and he is dead dead DEAD! Vermintide is also a favorite, seeing how it makes up for the lack of strenght with it's high output. S2 doesn't seem like a lot, but it means 5's against the high elves. In combination with wither, it's even more awesome. Cloud of Corruption is like warplightning, cast on every unit in a 12" circle. Also a chance to hit your own units. Very cool. Plague is the thing you want. It kills elves by the bunches. Everyone make a toughnesstest or die? Awesome! Also, in combination with wither... but I see you're drooling already.
|
| Honestly not a Dalek. | |
![]() |
|
| The Screaming Rat | 8th November 2010 - 04:16 PM Post #8 |
![]()
|
Thanks! I was thinking about taking a lots of plague magic and more weapon teams... on had 1 last time... What do you guys think about Jazzils... I only have six... and was thinking about taking two lighting guns as well as two doomwheels for some extra shooting... I just made a bonebraker Ratogre for my warlord that a REALLY want to use but not so thrilled about using him with a unit of RO's... I almost hate to say it, but... my other army is empire and I like their shooting much better against HEs.... |
![]() |
|
| Hardrainfalling | 8th November 2010 - 05:05 PM Post #9 |
|
Chieftain
|
i only like jezzes in bigger numbers you dont need their high str vs elves unless dragon hunting, posion mortars would be better vs his packed troops lightening cannons are always nice but again you dont really need the high str so i'd go for plague cats a big template on T3 elves will ruin his day |
| "I am always surprised when people complain a Skaven Army is cheesy. what do they expect from an Army of Rodents" | |
![]() |
|
| Stripsteak | 8th November 2010 - 07:49 PM Post #10 |
|
Warlord
|
i wouldn't bring jezzails unless you know for absolutely certain there is going to be a dragon there, and even then it's still a judgment call. You don't need high S attacks vs elves. You're better off getting volume of fire vs them than fewer strong attacks. Anything above S5 starts getting extra costly |
![]() |
|
| « Previous Topic · Fantasy Battles Rules Discussion · Next Topic » |








