| Rebuilt 2000 points list; Seer on Bell | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 25th October 2010 - 08:45 PM (468 Views) | |
| Innerwolf | 25th October 2010 - 08:45 PM Post #1 |
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Chieftain
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I have changed my list quite a bit after my first game. I liked the base, but I want to try new things. I removed the Gutter Runners as they are nearly useless against VC. I know they are very good against other armies, so I will try them when I expand the points limit. -Grey seer on Screaming Bell. Skalm and Dispel scroll. Pushed by 30 clanrats with standard, musician and warpfire thrower (deployed 5x9) -Warplock engineer, lvl 1 with warp-energy condenser -Chieftain BSB (he goes in the second rank on the Bell unit, so no need for protection) -30 slaves -30 slaves -30 clanrats with st+mus and poisoned wind mortar -30 Stormvermin with st+mus, PWM and MR (1) banner -6 rat ogres with 2 beastmasters -Hell Pit abomination It feels like fun. |
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| Severus | 26th October 2010 - 06:10 AM Post #2 |
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Clanrat
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Not a bad list at all. The only thing I am worried about is your long narrow formation on you Bell-unit. I understand you do it to protect the BSB, but what if you miscast with the grey seer? You run the risk of hitting 14 clanrats AND the BSB with a str 10 hit. I would have deployed that unit in a hordeformation for this reason alone It is also possible to have the stormvermin push the Bell. Though this is a bit more controversial it can be well worth a try. Give the seer the rival hide and use your slaves to hold up your opponents hardets units while your new fighty bellunit go after less dangerous targets. Looking at the rest of your list i think a stormbanner might be worth trying too. The amount of shooting power you risk facing in 8th ed is very scary. Surly it would be nice to reach those gunlines with your Abomination The MR1 banner on the stormvermin can be removes if they push the bell as they would have MR2 anyway. Of course if you are just fighting VC, the stormbanner is of no use, but i would argue the gutter runners still have their uses (shooting/rearcharge and so on) Oh. And the Doomrocket on the Engineer will be well worth it, but where to get the points?
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| Aut Vincere Aut Mori Oportet | |
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| Warlord McQueek | 26th October 2010 - 08:42 AM Post #3 |
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Clanrat
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Well, not allowing Fell bats, bat swarms (possibly the coach) and several characters (because of mounts or bloodline power) to fly isn't nothing, I'd say..
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| Razuli | 26th October 2010 - 02:30 PM Post #4 |
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Grey Seer
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I agree, I regret every time I didn't have a storm banner when fighting VC, usualy becuase of flying vampires taking out my artillary. |
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| Innerwolf | 26th October 2010 - 06:18 PM Post #5 |
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Chieftain
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Thanks! That miscast result (every model in contact gets hit) has only a 1/6 chance of happening. With the big template result (1/3 chance) the unit should get less hits than in a horde formation. So I think it balances out. *One doubt: could a character benefit from Look out sir! against miscast damage? I already played the Stormvermin as bell pushers. In horde they hit hard and with Unbreakeable they can grind the enemy.But the Seer is too vulnerable to willingly get him into a face-to-face combat. I can't take Skalm, Rival hide and the scroll on 2k games, and I really need that scroll(moving the scroll to the warlock wouldn't solve the problem either, as I'm short of points). In addition, my opponents always deploy his hardest hitting unit in front of mine (as he knows I need the general+bsb in the middle of my army), and a horde'd unit is so cumbersome to maneuver it's difficult to switch places with a roadblock(slaves) unit middle game. They really need to get into combat anyway, so it adds to the pressure of having to maneuver into favourable combats as soon as possible. As a last point, horde'd Stormvermin with the Bell get 12 attacks against 5 frontage units. Non-horded, non-bell Stormvermin get 12 attacks if deployed with a 6 frontage, and 14 with a 7 frontage. They won't be losing any attacks a lot of the time. Those are the reasons I think Clanrats *might* work best as pushers. I hadn't thought about the stormbanner fly-nullifying abilities. I would get it into my list if I could scratch the points. The same for the Doomrocket. Nice items, few points to spend
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| Severus | 27th October 2010 - 07:25 AM Post #6 |
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Clanrat
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I stand corrected ![]() @Innerwolf You make som good points As to the results "every model in contact is hit" and "the big template": The Big template will hit the rear rank too, så i am not sure it evens out as the unit gets smaller. if you have 13 models left, at least 13 will be hit in a narrow formation, and the unit will quickly come to a standstill. If you have 13 models in hordeformation on the other hand i guess maybe 4 is hit? The "every model in contact is hit" is even more dangerous of course... I understand your point about not taking the rival hide because of the scroll. My own 2000p also has a priest on Furnace with scroll så i did not take that into consideration. It can indeed be very difficult to avoid units when in hordeformation... Stormvermin in their own unit might of course hit harder (though the Bell impact hit and Rat Ogre might compensate for that), but then again, if the unit with the Bell is hit with a template or magic they will take less casulties than a compact MR1 unit (and if you take the stormbanner with them they wil not even have MR1). |
| Aut Vincere Aut Mori Oportet | |
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| Innerwolf | 27th October 2010 - 08:00 AM Post #7 |
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Chieftain
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At 13 models left it's useless to keep the horde formation. Only two ranks=no horde bonus. So at that point I would have ressorted to a deeper formation, anyway. If the miscast comes when the unit is at full strength, the big template hits more models in the horde unit as it reaches two columns of models at each side of the bell, while only one in the narrow unit. I agree about the roughly equivalent offensive potential for the Stormvermin with and without Bell. I know the protection is lower in the latter case, but I will have to do with I have. |
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| Severus | 28th October 2010 - 06:39 AM Post #8 |
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Clanrat
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At 13 models left my main priority would be to keep moving, not to add ranks. And as to keep moving in spite of miscast, the hordeformation is ideal.
Surly not two full columns at each side? Either way, when the unit starts loosing models it will not even be five models on each side. That said. When buying clanrats instead of stormvermin the unit can be made bigger to overcome this problem. Still, I'm not very keen on a big unit who tries to stay out of combat. I also like to picture myself the following scenario (partly because something similar has happened to me before): My 30 big unit is struck by dwellers bellow, reducing them to 15 models. In my following turn i try to get my opponent back by casting plague on his big unit of spearmen. MISCAST! This is followed by a strengt 10 hit on every model in contact (OR the big template) and reducing the Bell to an impressive, but very immovable monument. If only the unit would have been in hordeformation i would still be abel to charge the warmachines ahead, and saving my Grey Seer from getting the same cannonball in his face twice (Not a true story, but just to illustrate which camp i'm in when it comes to template hits vs. Bell (But I digress, and I'm truly sorry)). Furthermore, I agree with you on the point of mobilety in general. I just think the magical movement of the Bell compensates for that somewhat... Still i must say you list looks very solid. I hope some day that I too will be able to try out the PWM's and RO's |
| Aut Vincere Aut Mori Oportet | |
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| Innerwolf | 28th October 2010 - 04:52 PM Post #9 |
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Chieftain
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Ok, I see the merit on switching from deep formation into horde formation when the unit gets depleted. An intermediate solution, I supose Thanks again for the compliments, I will tell you how it worked next time I play
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| Innerwolf | 13th January 2011 - 07:18 PM Post #10 |
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Chieftain
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I have tested this list against High Elves and it worked well. The lack of warmachine hunters or Storm banner left me vulnerable to shooting, but he concentrated his two bolt throwers fire into my rat ogres (as he didn't kill them both units got nullified, not that bad of a result ). I tried to use Howling Warpgale and failed/got it dispelled, but I devastated him with double Warplighting and a lucky Dreaded 13th.But I'm thinking on introducing a change on the list. My flamethrower only fired once, and it's so unrealiable that only killed models of my own(it didn't reach the enemy). Only recently I have realized 20 points more could buy me a Warp Lighting Cannon, which can fire from turn one while doing similar damage. I can fit it in my list only by removing the MR1 banner, both slaves' musicians, the WFT and moving one PWM to the Bell's unit (freeing Stromvermin from the burden of a weapons team in the process. March, my preciousses. March!!) There is any reason I shouldn't do it? |
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). I tried to use Howling Warpgale and failed/got it dispelled, but I devastated him with double Warplighting and a lucky Dreaded 13th.