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Priest on a Furnace in challenges
Topic Started: 22nd October 2010 - 07:58 PM (881 Views)
turmi110
Chieftain
Quote:
 
Saying the wrecker goes on the challenger (and not dispersed amongst the unit, which is the intended target based on the armybook writeup) is akin to saying that in a challenge, impact hits go against the challenger too (which they don't)


Comparing the effect that wrecker attacks and impact hits have in a challenge is meaningless, simply for the fact that impact hits occur at the very beginning of close combat, before challenges are even declared. I do not know of a single case where someone can be in a challenge with something that then causes impact hits on them. Comparing the wrecker attack with stomp is more suitable, as both occur during the challenge, and both target the unit. The only difference is that it specifies for the wrecker attack that it must be distributed as shooting, though I don't know what difference that makes, I think its implied that if something targets a unit it is distributed as shooting. To me both stomp and wrecker attack hit the unit in the same way, so I'd treat them the same in a challenge. In the BRB FAQ it states that thunderstomp and stomp are directed to the challenger and not the unit they are in, so I'd do the same with the wrecker attack. I understand where you're coming from cap, and I think you're right if you strictly follow RAW, as there is no mention in the skaven FAQ as to the wrecker attack in a challenge, but as the comparison between stomp and wrecker attack is so close, I believe it was an oversight and meant to be the same for the wrecker, but what do I know of GW's intentions?
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
turmi110
Nov 10 2010, 04:44 PM
Quote:
 
Saying the wrecker goes on the challenger (and not dispersed amongst the unit, which is the intended target based on the armybook writeup) is akin to saying that in a challenge, impact hits go against the challenger too (which they don't)


Comparing the effect that wrecker attacks and impact hits have in a challenge is meaningless, simply for the fact that impact hits occur at the very beginning of close combat, before challenges are even declared. I do not know of a single case where someone can be in a challenge with something that then causes impact hits on them. Comparing the wrecker attack with stomp is more suitable, as both occur during the challenge, and both target the unit. The only difference is that it specifies for the wrecker attack that it must be distributed as shooting, though I don't know what difference that makes, I think its implied that if something targets a unit it is distributed as shooting. To me both stomp and wrecker attack hit the unit in the same way, so I'd treat them the same in a challenge. In the BRB FAQ it states that thunderstomp and stomp are directed to the challenger and not the unit they are in, so I'd do the same with the wrecker attack. I understand where you're coming from cap, and I think you're right if you strictly follow RAW, as there is no mention in the skaven FAQ as to the wrecker attack in a challenge, but as the comparison between stomp and wrecker attack is so close, I believe it was an oversight and meant to be the same for the wrecker, but what do I know of GW's intentions?

Finally someone understands what I meant.
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CapAmr05
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I wasn't comparing the wrecker attacks and impact hits for the purposes of ordering, but more for the fact that neither of them are targetted attacks. The bottom line I was trying to illustrate is that both just happen on the unit; they wouldn't be solely directed at 1 model in a cohesive unit.

Though;

I wasn't aware that they FAQ'ed stomps to take part in the challenges. Seeing that now your line of reasoning does make sense.

The only problem I can see is that until they write something to include both Gas and Wreckers during challenges, we're left with two options; RAW or try to take the FAQ for a separate (yet similar) Special attack and apply it to Wreckers and Gas*.

* The only problem with this line of logic is when you start taking FAQs for different things and trying to apply them to something else 'similar' you can potentially make the situations worse; here's a not too distant skaven-centric example; back in late 7th edition people tried to treat the Furnace/Bell mount as a monster because a similar model/mount (The Corpse Cart) was FAQed to be booted from the unit when the rider died. Because both were 'special' (and arguably similar) mounts people thought they could laterally apply the rules governing loss of rider from the Corpse Cart to the Furnace.

I'm not saying that would happen with your connective logic on the direction of wrecker attacks in a challenge, but given that GW has weird (seemingly contradictory) rulings all the time, it could. ((that doesn't stop your point, of including the stomps faq as a reference, from being a good one though))

--Cap
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turmi110
Chieftain
Yeah I see your point, I'd make sure to bring it up with my opponent. To be honest, without the FAQ ruling on stomps in challenges, I'd make them go against the unit and not the challenger too, thats the way the rules really do read to me. The only reason I stomp in a challenge is because of the FAQ, the wrecker has no such entry. So the bottom line is, do we treat the FAQ ruling for stomps in challenges as an explanation of how attacks like stomp/wrecker go in a challenge? Or as an exception to the rule that applies to stomps only? GW doesn't specify, in true GW style, so its up to the players/club to decide and house rule it. Now I really could go either way with this ruling.

As an aside, are there any other attacks that are similar to stomp and the wrecker? I can't think of any, but my knowledge of warhammer doesn't extend far outside of skaven, lizards, HE and WoC so my scope isn't that wide.
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CapAmr05
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There are a few items and special rules, here and there, that work like stomps, wreckers and gas in combat, but they generally have their own write-ups (like our wrecker/ gas does).

Quote:
 
Now I really could go either way with this ruling.


Lol, we've debated eachother into a stalemate. I can't figure it out now either.

--Cap

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Clan Skrittar
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
Don't breath weapons also work the same way in a challenge? 2d6 hits all on the opposing character?

More fuel to the furnace fire.
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