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Question about Stormvermin and the Bell
Topic Started: 22nd October 2010 - 06:32 AM (916 Views)
Innerwolf
Chieftain
Currently have 30 Stormvermin as the Bell pushers on my list, and the worked well in my last (and first) game with them, killing quite a few Grave Guard, holding thanks to UB(they took 11 cassualties). The Seer used the 13 spell on the Deathstar (only later I knew I wasn't allowed to cast it in combat) and won the game.

But the Seer wasn't butchered by his characters because he made the inexperience-driven mistake of challenging me( I doubt I will get another chance to climb to the Bell :rolleyes: ). Otherwise I could have lost him.

People talk about Stormvermin being too expensive to take the misfire cassualties(both from the bell and the spells), and that the Seer shouldn't be in combat because he is too vulnerable. I also lose the chance the 13 spell as soon as the target charges me.

So, I would be better switching the Bell to one of my 30 strong Clanrat units?
Will the Stormvermin work on their own? I thought they could start the game with a 7 frontage (getting more attacks against regular sized blocks than my horded Bell unit) and reforming as the lose models.

Is a character need in the unit? I feel magic resistance is a must for them.

What about their weapons team? I thought about going WFT-PWM-WFT (stormvermin-Bell clanrats-clanrats)
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Ablabab
Chieftain
Make the switch - clanrats have better armor in close combat (the parry save), and you want survivability more than anything else in whatever unit is standing with your Bell. The Bell itself - despite doing impact hits - should avoid combat as much as possible because the Grey Seer is so fragile. So you are wasting the killing power of your stormvermin, and the survivability of your clanrats.

Make the switch.
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The Buoyancy of Water
Chieftain
Note that you can still cast 13th while you're in combat, you just can't cast into combat. Unless there's a sneaky 8th ed rule I've missed...

But I agree that clanrats are best for the bell as stormvermin are going to want to get into the fight pretty quick.

Cheers,
Dave
I used to have a tally of wins, losses and draws, but I've totally lost count so will instead ramble for a little while...
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Innerwolf
Chieftain
The Buoyancy of Water
Oct 22 2010, 12:47 PM
Note that you can still cast 13th while you're in combat, you just can't cast into combat. Unless there's a sneaky 8th ed rule I've missed...

But I agree that clanrats are best for the bell as stormvermin are going to want to get into the fight pretty quick.

Cheers,
Dave

You are right, but the units I want to 13'd are usually the ones which want to charge the bell and kill it. Moreso if they know it will make them safe from the spell.
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Flem
Member Avatar
A blood curling cough a day, keeps the assassins away

For bell protection i advise clanrats they have a better armour save in close combat, but a weaker one against shooting(as stormvermin with shields have a 4+). You'll be able to field alot more so you can take some casualties from misfire results.

Stormvermin on their own work rather well, in the last tournament i played they did rather well. 30 men strong 6 wide 5 deep to get some more attacks, put some cheap chieftain with a halberd(and a potion of foolhardiness), wich costs you like 52 points, in there and they can do alot of damage. Of cource our "elite" can't match against other armies their elite but still.

Flem
Posted Image
I don't own this image !!!

Quote:
 
Let all of skavendom tremble before our pox and might, beware our vengefull gaze brought forth in both fever and blight !


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Innerwolf
Chieftain
I'm glad to read they work for you ^^
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
Its a waste of points to put storm vermin in a unit with a bell or warlitter, you lose both frontage and supporting attacks.
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Flem
Member Avatar
A blood curling cough a day, keeps the assassins away

Innerwolf
Oct 22 2010, 08:37 PM
I'm glad to read they work for you ^^

the only down side is they aren't very resillient so they tend to die quickly if they get attacks by strenght 4+ attacks. so you might want to give them a doomflayer to kill with impact hits or another weapon team to make the unit you'll charge a bit smaller and less ressilient towards your awsomeness :P.

Flem
Posted Image
I don't own this image !!!

Quote:
 
Let all of skavendom tremble before our pox and might, beware our vengefull gaze brought forth in both fever and blight !


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Dingareth
Clanrat
Kevlar
Oct 22 2010, 08:40 PM
Its a waste of points to put storm vermin in a unit with a bell or warlitter, you lose both frontage and supporting attacks.

You loose no supporting attacks. Models behind the Bell can still make supporting attacks. Strange, yes, but legal.
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
Show me where it says models in the 5th rank can make supporting attacks.
.
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reddogfish77
Grey Seer
well technicailly they are touching a model that is in btb... qed... he is right i think just like yiou can make supporting attacks from behind a warlitter.
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Innerwolf
Chieftain
Interesting question...
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Warlord McQueek
Clanrat
reddogfish77
Oct 24 2010, 03:40 AM
well technicailly they are touching a model that is in btb... qed... he is right i think just like yiou can make supporting attacks from behind a warlitter.

Well.. can't argue with that!
For things like rank bonus the book specifically tells you to count the space taken by the bell/furnace as the models that would normally be there, but that's it.
Still, wouldn't personally do it this way in normal battles because it doesn't make sense, but it seems to be written that way nonetheless...
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
Technically you can easily argue with that because the first line under supporting attacks says "warriors in the second rank..." and the horde rule further specifies it "warriors in a horde can make supporting attacks from the third rank, not just from the second". The diagrams also clearly show the only models capable of making supporting attacks. Displace those models with a large base and you lose the attacks, you don't get attacks from models farther back.

You can not make supporting attacks from behind absurdly large bases like the screaming bell and furnace, and you can only attack from behind a warlitter with spears or horde formation.
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Tezz
Clanrat
Innerwolf
Oct 24 2010, 06:10 AM
Interesting question...

In my rule book (German one) it says in the teaser second rank, then behind a model in B2B contact. I would stick with the second rank.
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