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About Rat Ogres
Topic Started: 14th October 2010 - 11:15 PM (3,104 Views)
Atropos
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Warpstone Addict
Hello, rat-brothers.

I'm new to this site (I've read a lot of threads but will start posting from now on) and I would like to ask you how have Rat Ogres worked for you thus far?

I haven't used them yet, but I want to. Plus, the new IoB models are outstanding, in my opinion.

Do you think 6 Rat Ogres will work well as a hitty unit? Maybe 5 plus a Bonebreaker?

How about packmasters? Any recommendations?

Many thanks!

Kind regards.
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Scurrilous
Warlord
I like the Rogres on paper, my problem is justifying the cost. 6 Rogres could buy you 40 clan rats and change, or a fair sized unit of plague monks or storm vermin. 6 Rogres will have 18 wounds + packmaster/moulder. They move a bit faster and hit a bit harder but it's a huge investment of points.

I'm sure I'll change my mind about them when I bother to try them. Interested to hear what people say about it.
Tournemant results to date:
vs Vampire Counts: 1 victory
vs Dwarves: 1 victory
vs Daemons: 1 Draw
vs Brettonians: 1 draw, 1 loss
vs Skaven: 1 victory
vs Lizardmen: 1 victory
vs Dark Elves: 1 loss
vs High Elves: 1 loss
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esco thomson
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High Technomancer of Clan Kryptraider
I have been running packs of 6 strong Rat Ogres with Master Bred and 4 Packmasters.

They prove time and time again to hit like a freight train, and go down to light missile fire like a wet paper airplane.

One realization that I have come to has been that the Packmasters just aren't needed. With the lower leadership you need the General/BSB nearby to maximize their potential as is(holds true for most of this army), so you really don't benefit that much, apart from some extra wounds for your Rat Ogres(from ranged attacks).

So I personally plan on dropping down to fewer Packmasters, and tossing that gamble up in the air, as I already mitigate light shooting at them as much as Skaven can with Warpgale/Stormbanner and cover.

They really make great hammers for flanking units, and although they are expensive, when you field blocks of 50 inexpensive Slaves, it isn't that bad.
It's Adventure Time!
2010 'Ardboyz Champion
Clan Kryptraider Army Diary
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
Scurrilous
Oct 14 2010, 06:50 PM
I like the Rogres on paper, my problem is justifying the cost. 6 Rogres could buy you 40 clan rats and change,

22 str 5 attacks vs 10 str 3 attacks.
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Scurrilous
Warlord
Yes but compare it to say, 35 plague monks with full command in ranks of 7. They may only be STR3 hits, but you get about 27 of them, and takes more wounds to kill them.

I really find the vulnerability to missile fire is the biggest reason I don't want to use them. But like I said I plan to try them out at some point and see if I'm just over-worrying about them.
Tournemant results to date:
vs Vampire Counts: 1 victory
vs Dwarves: 1 victory
vs Daemons: 1 Draw
vs Brettonians: 1 draw, 1 loss
vs Skaven: 1 victory
vs Lizardmen: 1 victory
vs Dark Elves: 1 loss
vs High Elves: 1 loss
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
Well they can't be shot in close combat, and the storm banner can get them there.

They hit like a truck. Not much else in the skaven army does. Plague monks are terrible against T4 troops or anything with armor.

Queek vermin are better, but a lot more points.
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Stripsteak
Warlord
just bring as many packmasters as you can, and get them into combat asap where they belong.
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Major Panic
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Clanrat
What about warlord riding bonebreaker with a Shadowmagic trinket? Would that help?
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Gnarkill
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For some honest reason, I ditched Rogres lately... Might be my opponents (WoC/Dwarfs/O&g and Helfs).

T4 + no save makes them rather squishy. They work in units of 4-6 (and yes, stomp is awesome). But, they will surely attract canons, boltthrowers and magic. T4 + no save and many d3/d6 wounds make them.. wel...interesting to shoot at (even with stormbanner, wich is not a guarantee!).
18 wounds on T4 aint that hard. 20 Thunderers can kill them quite easily for example. (Even if they only kill 2-3, the unit effectiveness is gone, and they will NOT win combat.)

So, what it comes down to is that I wont use Rogres in smaller battles and instead go for larges blocks of clannies/slaves/sv. Any battle of 2000+ pts is worth considering Rogres for. imho atleast with the experiences I have had.

In < 2000 pts battles it is better to get your punch out of a Doomwheel, engineers, doomrockets and WLC's (imho).

(Consider this: 18 wounds on T4, no save for 240pts. T4 with no save is quite a laugh now-a-days.) (generally only requires 5+es)

It has just been my experience, I don't know it it's me, or my (quite regular) opponents. It's just my 2 cents on the big-guys.

Hope it was usefull,

cheers Gnarkill :ph43r:
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scrivener
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*toot*

Ratogres have always been squishy, they were probably worse last armybook but a few players managed to make them work (even if less than 10% of players ever took them). Getting shot to bitz while still trying to get into combat is the universal problem for glass cannons. It's really a matter of screening them and timing when best to strike with them and what's best to strike with them. But I'd classify them as lower down on the priority list of units to select, and as the old skaven adage goes, dispensible like everything else (i.e. they're going to die, just make sure they kill a damn lot of stuff before they do).
hannanibal
 
*Angry mob assembles*

"WHAT DO WE WANT!!??"
"A THINNISH, WATERY PAINT WITH A GREENER TINGE THAN AGRAX EARTHSHADE!!"
"WHEN DO WE WANT IT!?"
"QUITE SOON PLEASE AS MY LAST POT IS RUNNING OUT!"
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reddogfish77
Grey Seer
they are not bad... just too expensive...

also if you really want to compare Queek stormvermin with death frenzy against rogres then

40 for 3 wounds 4 attacks T4 no armour
33 for 3 wounds 9 attacks T3 HA
also stormvermin get ranks... so long story short cost wise vermin take it out by a lot

and they have I5 and WS4


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Innerwolf
Chieftain
reddogfish77
Oct 15 2010, 10:14 AM
they are not bad... just too expensive...

also if you really want to compare Queek stormvermin with death frenzy against rogres then

40 for 3 wounds 4 attacks T4 no armour
33 for 3 wounds 9 attacks T3 HA
also stormvermin get ranks... so long story short cost wise vermin take it out by a lot

and they have I5 and WS4

I don't want 1d6 11 points models dyeing each turn. That should be taken into account too.
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
Innerwolf
Oct 15 2010, 06:06 AM
I don't want 1d6 11 points models dyeing each turn. That should be taken into account too.

True, Queek vermin are probably better off with skavenbrew anyway. Comparing the models 1v1 doesn't work since the rat ogres get a LOT more supporting attacks. I'd rather have hatred on the queek vermin than frenzy, especially if you are going 10 wide horde formation. 2/3 of that double frenzy is wasted since you get none from the back ranks.
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reddogfish77
Grey Seer
am just saying... not only S5 troop we have and vermin are cheaper even without DF they are still only 33pts give 3 A at I5 and will prob have better ld and no frenzy baiting.

they are also not suseptible to multi wound weapons and have armour.
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Ant


reddogfish77
Oct 15 2010, 07:00 AM
am just saying... not only S5 troop we have and vermin are cheaper even without DF they are still only 33pts give 3 A at I5 and will prob have better ld and no frenzy baiting.

they are also not suseptible to multi wound weapons and have armour.

Ah, but stormvermin also don't get stomp (which are worth more than +1A because of the auto hit), get much less attacks on a 100/125mm (ie 5 wide) frontage enemy unit, are suceptible to panic/fear etc and are slower (M5 vs M6). They also require an expensive special character which prevents you. I'd rather have T4 than a 5+ save too.

Also, rat ogres are better at moving through dangerous terrain since they don't care so much about losing ranks and take 1/3 as many tests as SV would. This also makes them less vunerable to templates - most templates only do multiwounds under the hole and less models will be hit in a RO unit. Cannons are a small issue, but I can't see them shooting at ROs very often if there are furnaces, abobs, bells and doomwheels to shoot at instead.

I love my ROs in 8th. I regularly run a unit 8 strong.
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