| Rat Ogres or Hell Pit Aboms? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 4th September 2010 - 03:09 AM (562 Views) | |
| Exodus2013 | 4th September 2010 - 03:09 AM Post #1 |
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So with what I'll get out of the IoB boxes I should end up with 6 rat ogres and a unit of them with 3 pack masters is around 264 points. A hell pit abom is about 235. I was thinking of converting the rat ogres into 1-2 hpa's if its worth it. What's better for flanking?? What's more worth it in general? |
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| carcharoth | 4th September 2010 - 03:15 AM Post #2 |
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Slayer of Lizardmen
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the HPA is likely the better value. it's a little more durable, and it hits a hell of a lot harder. it's also stubborn, which makes a big difference vs. ranked units. RO's are still a good choice, though. they can break ranks in a large enough unit, and the support and stomp attacks are great too. both units have hteir place, but i would say the HPA is a better value. |
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| esco thomson | 4th September 2010 - 04:11 AM Post #3 |
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High Technomancer of Clan Kryptraider
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Both are pretty much what Skaven have in terms of heavy hitters. I recently ran both in my 'Ardboyz list and was very pleased with both. In fact I think I want to squeeze another Rat Ogre into my semifinals list... I think pound for pound you will get more mileage from the Hellpit though, it fits very nicely almost in any list. |
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It's Adventure Time! 2010 'Ardboyz Champion Clan Kryptraider Army Diary | |
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| Exodus2013 | 4th September 2010 - 06:01 AM Post #4 |
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Ya I was hoping to hear that the HPA was a better overall choice as I really like the monstrosity that is the HPA. |
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| the one tyrant | 4th September 2010 - 06:10 AM Post #5 |
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Clanrat
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if you really like the hba you should just go with it, end of the day its your hobby |
| My Army Diary of Stuff | |
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| Waaargh | 4th September 2010 - 07:37 AM Post #6 |
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Chieftain
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Ratogres are far more reliable though - they charge 6+2d6 compared to the lower 3d6, and churn out 21 attacks + 3 S5 stomp attacks instead of rolling on the table. RO's damage output will diminish with every casualty though, where the HPA stays strong right until the last wound is gone, and the frenzy can be beaten out of them. Six RO have 22 wounds with four packmasters where the HPA has 6 wounds with regeneration. |
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| Ablabab | 4th September 2010 - 09:08 AM Post #7 |
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Chieftain
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1. Dont use the Island of Blood of Rat Ogres for making a HPA - They are snap-fit models, and nearly impossible to cut up into useful bits. - They are way too awesome to not use as rat ogres. Instead, get your hand on a box of rat ogres/packmasters/giant rats (the "old" ones). Apart from 2 torsos, which are nice for fleshing out the bulk of your HPA, you also get several spare arms (already separated and easy to use when building your HPA and several (4-6) rat ogre heads that are a lot more monstrous than the IoB Rat ogre heads which, on their own, pretty much look like they could be chieftans' heads. Also, an HPA should always get spikes if you can afford it. |
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| Waaargh | 4th September 2010 - 05:40 PM Post #8 |
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Chieftain
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Ablabab, you forgot to mention greenstuff, lots of greenstuff ![]() You know those spikes will get you 7 slaves, right? |
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| Ablabab | 4th September 2010 - 08:56 PM Post #9 |
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Chieftain
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Yea Greenstuff is the way to go. Like... gallons of the stuff. That's what i used at least <_< As for the spikes: One of the most frequently forgotten (and important) advantages of skaven armies is the high concentration of magic attacks. We have warpstone weapons all over the place, and can ignore some unit types that can be downright devastating to a lot of other armies. Also, if you combine that MR1 on your Abomb with a 15 pt scroll of shielding, you can assure that your poor monster survives that boosted fireball it soaks every other game. It's not as good as it used to be, but MR is still fine. |
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| Waaargh | 4th September 2010 - 09:15 PM Post #10 |
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Chieftain
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Sounds like a defensive one trick pony
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| Ablabab | 4th September 2010 - 09:19 PM Post #11 |
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Chieftain
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It is. But having a 3+ ward save against those 10 fireballs can make a huge difference. Your Abomb will most likely take 1 wound, but that's a huge upgrade from 3 (or more, if you're me). In my opinion, the scroll of shield is a hugely overlooked defensive trick. It has no range or LOS requirements, and can really keep your ranks alive. |
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| Waaargh | 4th September 2010 - 09:33 PM Post #12 |
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Chieftain
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I agree on scroll of shielding being very good as a defensive measure. Against spells that damage each model in unit it is a cheap and useful way to protect a huge unit, to keep it going at an important time. |
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| WarpFodder | 4th September 2010 - 09:52 PM Post #13 |
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Warlord
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Only problem with it is where do you put it, if you have 2 casters like most lists your pretty much taking a dispel scroll and a power scroll. And before anyone says you cant dispel a super fireball when its IFd you cant use ANY type of scroll if the oppenent gets a IF. so no 4+ ward either. Im not disputing the fact that its pretty good but the choice of taking half wounds vs a guaranteed dispel for 10 points more I know what im going with. Besides were skaven....since when do we think Defense...its all about the Offence |
| If we weren't meant to eat animals they wouldn't be made of food! | |
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| eratu13 | 5th September 2010 - 12:02 PM Post #14 |
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Clanrat
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With lore of death being so good at sniping characters and our character having low leadership/strength/toughness, I was planning on running a non spell casting engineer with mr3 so when stacked with existing ward saves on my seer 5+ and warlord 4+ I end up with a 2+/1+ ward save. I am considering dropping it down to mr2 and giving him the shielding scroll as well. Problem is finding the additional 50 points to make him a wizard so he can take the shielding scroll, advantage is whole unit ends up with a one off 2+ ward save and 5+ for the rest of the game as opposed to a constant 4+ ward. But as he is there mainly to protect my seer and warlord I can live with that my issue is finding the 50 points for the magic level as warpfodder said most folks are running with 2 casters. Having said that 2 engineers, one with condenser and a grey seer can give you some nasty magic phases when you roll low for power dice. You have 3 chances for an extra dice on a 6 and 1 on a 5 plus the free warptokens you rolled up with your seer. You can easily get a couple of spells off when your opponent has very few dispel dice. Regarding defence versus offence I am finding with needing larger units and the new annoying one inch rule I am fielding fewer units than in previous additions meaning I do not have the same amount of cheap units to throw away. I am still fielding 200 plus models but spread across fewer units to take advantage of the steadfast rules. The fun thing with bigger units is during one game against dark elves we had dawn attack so my slaves ended up being steadfast on a 5 as were to far away from bsb and general he beat me in combat by 1, I had 8 ranks left and rolled a 6 for distance he took 10 strength 3 hits on the attacking dark rider unit and 9 strength 3's on a unit of 6 shades and 11 hits on black guard unit. Killed all dark riders and all but one shade and panicked shades lol also killed 6 blackguard, the slave unit would only have done d3 plus 2 hits in 7th as I only ever went for 20/21 man units. So 102 points of slaves killed over 400 points of dark elves. Perhaps I am spending to many points on characters but am loving being able to field an seer and warlord and a bsb is essential for those lovely rerolls |
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| Kevlar | 5th September 2010 - 03:11 PM Post #15 |
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Doomwheel Driver
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Priests are a good place to put arcane items since they really don't need a combat boost outside a flail. |
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