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Whats the deal with skaven magic being so bad
Topic Started: 3rd September 2010 - 04:17 PM (1,135 Views)
ForeverRat
Clanrat
I find shaven magic soooo frustrating! Unlike all the other armies, there is no way to get all the so spells you want into the army.

Why do we have two spell lores? The best spells are split between them so there is no way to get the ones that you want. Plague and wither are in a different lore to death frenzy and scorch. what approach do you take to rolling up your spells? Do you go for ruin on the GS and give up on the possibility of getting plague?
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
Take 2 lvl 2 priests, a seer, and a lvl 2 warlock. You will get every spell pretty much. Good luck getting enough dice to cast them though.

What do you mean bad though? Other than pestilent breath i find all of our spells extremely useful.
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Decker_cky
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Master of the Deamonic Leash of Numbers and the Armor of Updates
Yeah...skaven have the best lores in the game. 8th edition power level with 7th edition casting costs. Guaranteed nuke spell for when your opponent has an elite army. With those casting costs, you can get off almost an entire lore most turns, unlike 8th edition spell lists which you'll only get off 2-3 spells per turn (with 1-2 dispelled).
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Paricidas
Doomwheel Driver
something to consider:

You will always get the best spell of all lores, no matter what you roll (the 13th) and it cost you 240 points for a grey seer (other armies pay much more than 300 points for comparable results)

If you take another 2nd lvl caster, you will also certainly get all good spells from one of the two lores (if you are very unlucky you only get one, but if you take 2 nd lvl casters of different lores, then your seer may end up with a spell-list that is really overpowered (plague, whither, 13th and scortch).

Skaven casters have as many warpstone tokens as their point limits allow them to take, plus the grey seer comes with D3 tokens for free, many other armies can just carry around one meager power stone (dont mention darkelfs plz...).

I really dont see where the skaven magic is "weak" or "bad" and whenever I fielded more than two lvls of casters the magic they wielded was game deciding.
Ceterum censeo Altdorfem esse delendam
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Rhellion
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Warlord
Skaven have the best spell in the game (The 13th Spell), excellent supplementary spells (Plague, Scorch, Wither), and free access to 2 lores at one time unlike any other army.

Skaven magic is excellent.
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ForeverRat
Clanrat
Maybe I was being a little harsh. Maybe I should has said that skaven magic was frustrating rather than bad! I always seem to get the spells i don't want. Having to either choose one lore or the other makes getting the spells you want much more tricky. I agree that the 13th spell is good but it is very expensive to cast. I am not sure it is the best spell in the game either. You would probably have to miscast just to cast it as well!
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
ForeverRat
Sep 3 2010, 05:55 PM
Maybe I was being a little harsh. Maybe I should has said that skaven magic was frustrating rather than bad! I always seem to get the spells i don't want. Having to either choose one lore or the other makes getting the spells you want much more tricky. I agree that the 13th spell is good but it is very expensive to cast. I am not sure it is the best spell in the game either. You would probably have to miscast just to cast it as well!

Nope, guess what the average roll of 6 dice is....

21 (+4 for seer level = 25)

It is very easy to get the 13th off without a power scroll misfire.

You may still misfire, but there isn't some great chance of it.
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Paricidas
Doomwheel Driver
Throwing 6 dices just for a 50% chance to cast the 13th is quite expensive, when for the same amount of power dices you can cast two other really useful spells.

Warpstone tokens help with it and I dont remember a game where it was necessary to cast the 13th more than two times, but the powerscroll definitifly helps to get it off when you really need it to.
Ceterum censeo Altdorfem esse delendam
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Waaargh
Chieftain
I have the same thoughts on skaven magic - spells of ruin and plague are below par of the battlemagic lores, they are however (much) cheaper to cast and just like the battlemagic spells have one ultimate spell. Thinking about it the only thing I do miss is variable casting levels of some spells, such as the classic high and low version of Warplighting, and some of the spells of plague (Wither with 18" range :blink: ).

I too am worried about throwing the magic phase out the window with a failed casting of Dreaded 13th, but the chances of getting it off is slightly above 56% since the average roll is 21+4 for the wizards level, and then there is the added chance of getting the spell through with IF, 26%. If I am worried wasting the PD my opponent should be just as worried since the odds are in my favor... with that said the testing rolls (never trust in math!) wasn't too convincing.

There is Wand of Jet which may or may allow a 7th PD dice to be rolled, which would greatly increase the odds of casting it.
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
Waaargh
Sep 4 2010, 03:27 AM

There is Wand of Jet which may or may allow a 7th PD dice to be rolled, which would greatly increase the odds of casting it.

Well you have warp tokens too.
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BobMakenzie
Clanrat
Kevlar
Sep 4 2010, 02:53 PM
Waaargh
Sep 4 2010, 03:27 AM

There is Wand of Jet which may or may allow a 7th PD dice to be rolled, which would greatly increase the odds of casting it.

Well you have warp tokens too.

Warp Tokens are still limited to the 6 dice max as far as I know.
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Plague Priest Phebrickid
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'Embrace Pestilence!'
Personally I don't actually see the Thirteenth spell as being that great :wacko: ... ok 4 D6 casualities, average of 12 dead, but with miscasts being rather deadly it is a big risk - and how often will you actually get a unit of clan rats out of it now that bigger units are a must in the 8th edition (skaven) (skaven) (skaven) . I'd rather the plague spell running riot in their lines and a scorch or two panicking low Ld troops. Dev

Just my opinion - and obviously alot of you don't agree! :blush:
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Paricidas
Doomwheel Driver
It totally depends on the army you play against, if the 13th is worth its points (a grey seer, a power scroll and a spell of your lore that you DONT have...).

Throwing it at 60 goblins is perhaps not the way to go...

But if you ever saw what a unit of khorne warriors with a lord in it, shot down to unit strengh 4, can do to any unit you toss at them or if the phoenix guard of the high king is just wading through piles of dead stormrats, than you will be glad to have a spell that allows no ward saves and turns the enemys 350 points general into a rat without letting your opponent even try to do something against it.

For hordes you have enough other things like scorch and plague, its the elite infantry that really doesnt like to lose 4D6 models.
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Plague Priest Phebrickid
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'Embrace Pestilence!'
Oh yeah, I never actually considered the effect on Generals! :blush:

I suppose it all depends on what your facing at the time.
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Decker_cky
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Master of the Deamonic Leash of Numbers and the Armor of Updates
Plague Preist Phebrickid
Sep 4 2010, 09:13 AM
Personally I don't actually see the Thirteenth spell as being that great  :wacko:  ... ok 4 D6 casualities, average of 12 dead, but with miscasts being rather deadly it is a big risk - and how often will you actually get a unit of clan rats out of it now that bigger units are a must in the 8th edition  (skaven)  (skaven)  (skaven) . I'd rather the plague spell running riot in their lines and a scorch or two panicking low Ld troops.  Dev

Just my opinion - and obviously alot of you don't agree!  :blush:

Average of 14 dead. But there's units that nothing else will compare to that in potency. 14 dead is probably double what purple sun or dwellers below will do to a unit of chosen. You have to choose lores in your armylist, and barring playing skaven, there's always a solid unit to target with the 13th spell. And then there's plague which is devastating to all the units the 13th spell isn't. I had it go off against FatherSquee's unit of 50 clanrats then jump to another unit of 50 clanrats. He wasn't too pleased at the 60 clanrats that died. :P But against black orcs, chaos warriors, bestigors or any other number of T4 units, the 13th spell is better.
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