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Mountain Chimeras; They hurt..
Topic Started: 24th August 2010 - 10:40 PM (882 Views)
Daemonmaster
Clanrat
Two mountain chimeras ripped my army a new one. I can think of one counter.. sort of. It requires using leadership reducing things and the Helm of Discord. Since the chimera's leadership is 6, I can reduce that to 4 with ease, then a forced leadership test is likely to fail. That means the damn thing stands there and takes it without getting to fight back.

So what do I do about the other one?

Have you guys come up against mountain chimeras yet? If so, what are your counters?
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Omens
Clanrat
dispell it either when cast, or in your turn.
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Daemonmaster
Clanrat
I tried that. Still have to beat a 20. I used 6 dice and still failed. That was all my power dice. The magic phases were really boring because of it.
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Decker_cky
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Master of the Deamonic Leash of Numbers and the Armor of Updates
Pretty sure it's only 15+ to dispel on a later turn because that's the minimal casting value of the spell.
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Nightwhisker
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A rule that is being argued alot is that one model may never exceed more than 10 attacks which 4D6 likely does. If you're a WAAC kinda guy, like arguments or 'standing up for the rules' you can always pull that.

Just forget about that one when your Hellpit rolls 18 for it's attacks. ;)
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Daemonmaster
Clanrat
Decker_cky
Aug 24 2010, 07:14 PM
Pretty sure it's only 15+ to dispel on a later turn because that's the minimal casting value of the spell.

Is this true for spells that have multiple casting values and the higher is used to cast the spell? I thought it remained at 20+... Clearly I need to reread this. That would make it a lot more convenient.
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
Daemonmaster
Aug 24 2010, 08:56 PM
Decker_cky
Aug 24 2010, 07:14 PM
Pretty sure it's only 15+ to dispel on a later turn because that's the minimal casting value of the spell.

Is this true for spells that have multiple casting values and the higher is used to cast the spell? I thought it remained at 20+... Clearly I need to reread this. That would make it a lot more convenient.

remain in play only require the minimum casting value to dispel. Kadon seems kind of crappy since he casts in his magic phase, charges are over so he can't really do anything before it gets dispelled in your magic phase. I guess he could have charged into close combat hoping to get the spell off in a suicide charge, but that seems rather risky for a wizard.
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Daemonmaster
Clanrat
Kevlar
Aug 24 2010, 09:13 PM
Daemonmaster
Aug 24 2010, 08:56 PM
Decker_cky
Aug 24 2010, 07:14 PM
Pretty sure it's only 15+ to dispel on a later turn because that's the minimal casting value of the spell.

Is this true for spells that have multiple casting values and the higher is used to cast the spell? I thought it remained at 20+... Clearly I need to reread this. That would make it a lot more convenient.

remain in play only require the minimum casting value to dispel. Kadon seems kind of crappy since he casts in his magic phase, charges are over so he can't really do anything before it gets dispelled in your magic phase. I guess he could have charged into close combat hoping to get the spell off in a suicide charge, but that seems rather risky for a wizard.

It's a tooled up melee vampire lord.
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Decker_cky
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Master of the Deamonic Leash of Numbers and the Armor of Updates
In which case he might be better off just getting the +3A +3S spell which can be boosted to affect other nearby wizards.
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Flem
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A blood curling cough a day, keeps the assassins away

Daemonmaster
Aug 25 2010, 02:19 AM
Kevlar
Aug 24 2010, 09:13 PM
Daemonmaster
Aug 24 2010, 08:56 PM
Decker_cky
Aug 24 2010, 07:14 PM
Pretty sure it's only 15+ to dispel on a later turn because that's the minimal casting value of the spell.

Is this true for spells that have multiple casting values and the higher is used to cast the spell? I thought it remained at 20+... Clearly I need to reread this. That would make it a lot more convenient.

remain in play only require the minimum casting value to dispel. Kadon seems kind of crappy since he casts in his magic phase, charges are over so he can't really do anything before it gets dispelled in your magic phase. I guess he could have charged into close combat hoping to get the spell off in a suicide charge, but that seems rather risky for a wizard.

It's a tooled up melee vampire lord.

Aye it's a common trick where i play. a lvl 1 lore of beast vampire with a power scroll who's just going berserk.
Vampires can actually pull this spell of as they can charge in the magic phase, thank the horned rat all those vanhell's are easier to dispell and the book of arkhan requiring power dice. So casting the +3 T and the +3 Strenght for all chars within 12 inch is a far better option then going Kadon and hopinh you can spam vanhells enough.

Dispelling remain in play spells are indeed on the minimum casting value.

Now the mountain chimera, i just zap him with my cannons or doomwheels. Since he no longer counts as infrantrie he gets no look out sir. Other tricks is trying to take away his rank bonus and challenge him with a champion he can get only 6 wounds for combat res instead of the 4D6 massacer. but dispelling is the save way to go.
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
Even a vamp hero should not be too hard to kill. Toughness 4 two wounds. I just feed them slaves most of the time but my priest on furnace has dispatched his fair share of vampires too.

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Decker_cky
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Master of the Deamonic Leash of Numbers and the Armor of Updates
Another trick Bakfire pointed out to me against Vamps who charge with Vanhels....

Frog scroll on the vampire as they cast Vanhels. The charge goes off, but the Vamp gets 1's for stats. Easily killed by clanrats or slaves.

I'm pretty sure that'd still work against transformed Vampires.
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Daemonmaster
Clanrat
Flem
Aug 25 2010, 06:44 AM
Daemonmaster
Aug 25 2010, 02:19 AM
Kevlar
Aug 24 2010, 09:13 PM
Daemonmaster
Aug 24 2010, 08:56 PM
Decker_cky
Aug 24 2010, 07:14 PM
Pretty sure it's only 15+ to dispel on a later turn because that's the minimal casting value of the spell.

Is this true for spells that have multiple casting values and the higher is used to cast the spell? I thought it remained at 20+... Clearly I need to reread this. That would make it a lot more convenient.

remain in play only require the minimum casting value to dispel. Kadon seems kind of crappy since he casts in his magic phase, charges are over so he can't really do anything before it gets dispelled in your magic phase. I guess he could have charged into close combat hoping to get the spell off in a suicide charge, but that seems rather risky for a wizard.

It's a tooled up melee vampire lord.

Aye it's a common trick where i play. a lvl 1 lore of beast vampire with a power scroll who's just going berserk.
Vampires can actually pull this spell of as they can charge in the magic phase, thank the horned rat all those vanhell's are easier to dispell and the book of arkhan requiring power dice. So casting the +3 T and the +3 Strenght for all chars within 12 inch is a far better option then going Kadon and hopinh you can spam vanhells enough.

Dispelling remain in play spells are indeed on the minimum casting value.

Now the mountain chimera, i just zap him with my cannons or doomwheels. Since he no longer counts as infrantrie he gets no look out sir. Other tricks is trying to take away his rank bonus and challenge him with a champion he can get only 6 wounds for combat res instead of the 4D6 massacer. but dispelling is the save way to go.

I don't understand why +3S and +3A is better than a WS7 S7 T7 W10 A4D6 (+1D6 thunderstomp) monster with Poisoned Attacks. I couldn't kill it. I did 3 wounds total to it. One from the bell (hurray, it worked!) and two from the Plague Priest. I didn't even think to challenge it with a champion. That's bloody epic. Only works once, though. Then I lose.

And yeah, he wasn't using any other magic in the phases. He had two vampire lords with Red Fury and the Beast lore. Turned them both into mountain chimeras (so they can't cast anymore) and just ripped my stuff up. Dispelling a 20+ spell with 2 dispel dice ain't gonna work. Then trying to dispel 20+ on 8 power dice didn't work either (lots of ones there.. woo...). At least next time it'll be a little easier.

My hat goes off to him, though. This is his first game he's won in 8th. This edition was not kind to Vampire Counts. It pretty much nerfed the army so much that you have to turbo-cheese to win.

Oh, in this game before the chimeras came out I hit his 600+ point unit of 10 Black Knights and BSB with the 13th Spell. They became a unit of 10 clanrats which then flank-charged a unit of 20 wolves and butchered them what good. That was the highlight of the game.
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
Seems like some of your problems stem from not understanding the rules...
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Decker_cky
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Master of the Deamonic Leash of Numbers and the Armor of Updates
Daemonmaster
Aug 25 2010, 08:19 AM
Oh, in this game before the chimeras came out I hit his 600+ point unit of 10 Black Knights and BSB with the 13th Spell.  They became a unit of 10 clanrats which then flank-charged a unit of 20 wolves and butchered them what good.  That was the highlight of the game.

Highlighted by the fact that black knights can't be targeted by the 13th spell. ;)

On the chimera....you had caused 3 wounds. Next turn, you flubbed on your dispel roll. Bad rolls happen. Had you dispelled the spell there, the vampire was dead.

You missed a bunch of rules bits and opportunities. Now you know better. Live and learn. :)

MUTATE: And +3A +3S is better because for the casting cost, you get relatively more without the huge miscast risk, and you benefit from your weapons and magic items. You remain a wizard. And most importantly, you won't have it dispelled in the following magic phase at 15+.
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