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Assassin Equipment; (re-posted from Army Design)
Topic Started: 16th August 2010 - 03:39 AM (988 Views)
j2klbs
Clanrat
Hi all -

It was suggested I post this here in the tactics section.

It seems most people like the following equipment for their assassins:

Weeping Blade (30), Potion of Strength (20)

This, of course, gives the assassin S7 for one turn and d3 wounds. This layout gives him the opportunity to kill nearly any character/monster. However, it's weakness is that the player must choose to drink the potion at the beginning of a player's turn, which introduces uncertainty. Since the opponent knows you have drank the potion, what if he flees from your charge, or if it is his turn, chooses not to charge. If you wait to reveal your assassin until the 2nd turn of a combat, the unit may have already fled, etc.

I was thinking that the following equipment may be better:

Blade of Corruption (35), The Other Trickerster's Shard (15)

While the assassin does not get S7 for that one big turn, he does get S5 (+1 relative to earlier build) all of the time. And 2 wounds is the equivalent of d3 wounds (on average). Plus, since many enemy characters will have a ward save, the shard may allow the kill whereas the first combo may not. The chance that the assassin kills himself with the blade of corruption is very small since his ASF/high initiative will normally mean the assassin is re-rolling 1's anyway.

Thoughts?

~Jason
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Shaundakul
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The downside with the earlier combo (must reveal the assassin at the beginning of the turn) may seem like a real bummer. In most cases though, the opposing player has already figured out that theres an assassin coming his way. For example a small NR-unit storming towards a fully ranked empire regiment with a mage in it.

The pot/blades build is meant for taking out all but the toughest of opponents. ASF, s7 and a total of -5 save modifier almost assures that at least one wound gets through. In one out of three cases, even most lords are dead thanks to d3 wounds whereas double wounds still has to cause two wounds to kill him.

That build clearly isnt for mage-hunting though as both the save modifier and the s7 is a total waste of points vs t3 or t4 and no armor save. In that role your build is way better.

The blade/shard assassin is missing out on save penalty. Anyone with 2+ armor will still save half of the wounds inflicted.

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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
With the new mount rules many tooled up lords will have 4 wounds so the blade of corruption or the weeping blade will both need to do two to kill. But at least with the boc its always 2. With the weeping blade you might get unlucky and need to do 4 wounds.

My warlord on bonebeaker with armor of destiny, blade of anti-hero and pot str lasted two turns against a vamp lord with same sword, red fury, inf hatred, 2+ save armor, and stupidity hat. If i would have had the boc i would have won. Didn't help i had a bsb and warlock in my unit making the vamp str 8.
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WarpFodder
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Warlord
While I dont want a word by word example from the 8th BRB how does monsterous mounts such as dragons work now. all i know is bonebreakers give warlords +1W. tricksters shard is force enemies to reroll ward saves yes? I do quite like that for an idea
If we weren't meant to eat animals they wouldn't be made of food!
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j2klbs
Clanrat
8th ed rules give character riding monsters +1 armor save now. Characters riding a monstrous beast uses the higher wounds of the character or monstrous beast (bonebreaker has 4 wounds).

Yes, trickster's shard forces all models touching the bearer to re-roll successful ward saves.

I think I am leaning towards the BoC/TS vs. the WB/PoS because I like the fact that there is not a big drop-off in effectiveness after the first round of combat. Hopefully with the assassin's 4+ ward save he will live to fight in round two. Plus, as Shaundakul noted, the setup is probably better versus mages and that is hopefully my main target.
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melcher
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Clanrat
Quote:
 
Blade of Corruption (35), The Other Trickerster's Shard (15)

I also prefer this equipment, due to the fact, that most heros can buy wardsaves now and often rely on that more than on a good armor save. I managed to kill that assassin in the last game, because the reroll gave me to 1īs...this happens sometimes, when you play skaven :lol:

In the 2999 points games we actually playing, i could also field a second assassin with
Quote:
 
Weeping Blade (30), Potion of Strength (20)

which would have to deal with monsters and lords...

Right now i think that if you want only one assassin, the BoC and Shard combo is more flexibel.

best regards :bow:
"Looks like you lost this game in the "purchase models" phase." (from warseer)
Clan Nieflieh - my ever growing skaven diary
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WarpFodder
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Warlord
Yeah I was in the main camp that PoS/WB combo was the best for assassins but i think the constant dmg output of s5 2W over one turn of S7 D3W is better. Plus its nice to KNOW your doing 2 wounds rather than needing 2 wounds to kill a hero and rolling a 1-2 for D3 wounds :(

Also...damn does that mean dark elf lords on B dragons have 6wounds with a 1+ armor inverse ward save!! FECK OFF!!
If we weren't meant to eat animals they wouldn't be made of food!
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
WarpFodder
Aug 17 2010, 08:12 AM
Yeah I was in the main camp that PoS/WB combo was the best for assassins but i think the constant dmg output of s5 2W over one turn of S7 D3W is better. Plus its nice to KNOW your doing 2 wounds rather than needing 2 wounds to kill a hero and rolling a 1-2 for D3 wounds :(

Also...damn does that mean dark elf lords on B dragons have 6wounds with a 1+ armor inverse ward save!! FECK OFF!!

Large monster are different than monstrous cavalry. Pretty much the way they always were, but with +1 armor.
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Shaundakul
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WarpFodder
Aug 17 2010, 02:12 PM
Plus its nice to KNOW your doing 2 wounds rather than needing 2 wounds to kill a hero and rolling a 1-2 for D3 wounds :(

Its even nicer when you actually DO roll 3 wounds! I have a VERY optimistic approach when playing skaven, often rolling an extra dice for a ratling gun, keeping focus on the potential power not the probable consequences.

It keeps the opponent on the edge mumbling stuff like "you just had to, didnt you?" and "moron". I just think its much more entertaining.

Seriously though, if i were to field an assassin, his purpose would probably be to take out enemy casters as my army will go very light on the spellcasting business. For that purpose the BoC/TS build is perfect. Double wounds, s5, re-roll ward saves will make short work of even well equipped mage-lords.

Besides, the PoS/WB build: a 170 pt model with a single mission (with far from 100% success) is a bad deal in all but a few certain occasions.
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SkitterPaw
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Chieftain
Shaundakul
Aug 17 2010, 09:59 AM
with far from 100% success

You have officially summed up almost everything Skaven ever do. Ever.

I've rather grudgingly played my first 8th game a while back. I went for a nice little Warpforged Blade Assasin. He did nicely to mince a Vamp (he did 2 wounds, then got his ass handed to him [which was the plan, i actually baited my opponnt into butchering the Assassin, instead of my precious Stormvermin]).

I ws thinking of fielding a trio of assassins, basiclly just to annoy opponents and surprise cavalry and whatnot. They are: 2 assassins with armous save ignoring weapons, then one with the Potion of Strength and Weaping Blade. Basically, they're to jump out, yell "rawr!" and kill stuff.

Though, now that i read this thread, i'm planning to run an Assassin with the Shard.... that should go nicely. I hope....

.....Unless my opponent starts ogers, like he was saying he might (assassin V Tyrant.... eep!)

Anyway.... my long, rambling 2 cents from 1 in the morning.
Vaithstrom Warpmane
Aug 11 2010, 01:51 PM
I don't mind when I accidentally kill my own.  They were probably asking for it anyway.

mellr0
Sep 29 2010, 11:02 AM
The UK baggage handlers hate your luggage, and can sense delicate expensive stuff.
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WarpFodder
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Warlord
tricksters shard.....oppenents in BtB reroll ward saves....how does that work if the assassin attacks a unit with a ward save, ie any sheild parry save or daemons, does he reroll 2 successfull wards, all wards or do you have to individually allocate each attack???
If we weren't meant to eat animals they wouldn't be made of food!
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