| plague furnace = points waste?; how effective is it? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 12th August 2010 - 05:23 PM (1,150 Views) | |
| lord baines | 12th August 2010 - 05:23 PM Post #1 |
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Clanrat
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I'm going to start running a unit of 27 plague monks with a level 2 plague priest on a furnace. There are 2 things I need to know, firstly what have your results been like with the unit? Secondly, as i'm playing high elves mostly, will the plague priest ever survive a combat with them always striking first, he's my only magic defence so could do with sticking around. The unit comes in at around 550 points. in a horde army where no other unit has a points cost above 162 it seems like a huge all your eggs in one basket unit, but is it worth it? thanks all... I love the model and with battalion box sets i'll have the monks anyway so i hope it works
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| staples | 12th August 2010 - 08:57 PM Post #2 |
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So, Im new to Skaven, only two games in... But. The furnace is amazing! I fielded 30 Plaguemonks, with furnace in the middle and the Plague Banner. The unit does an amazing amount of damage the turn it charges, unleashes the banner and the furnace kills things even more. A horrendous amount of damage! It smashed its way through 25 dwarfs, with bsb in the front frank in one amazing round of combat. It was so much fun ![]() Against elves it will be even better. The Toughness tests will be more effective, and the attacks with the plague banner will do even more damage. I cant recommend the unit highly enough... |
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| Rolandus Rattus | 12th August 2010 - 09:01 PM Post #3 |
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Clanrat
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I have had great results with the plague furnace. I take a unit of 35 plaguemonks around the furnace with the tripple march banner. I run the unit is big enough to soak up punishment from shooting (especially when combined with a plague priest with a shadow magnet) to get right up in the face of an enemy unit. Then you unleash the billowing death point blank. (with a decent slice of luck you'll have got wither off on the target unit first which makes it really nasty) Then when they charge you they get a gas test then your plague priest and crew and then monks and then the wrecker ball. Sure u lose men with the triple march banner (but always less than you'd think for some reason) but its worth it to see your opponents face when the big furnace flies 15 inches across the board on turn 1! Against elves its awesome. They arent tough and small elite elven units are gonna run out of men before you even if they manage to win every round of combat it dont matter your unbreakable. And bear in mind in 8th ed you only score points for the plague priest if you kill him AND the furnace or visa versa, it makes it pretty viable. 550 points for a huge unit of toughness 4 frenzied rats isnt a lot really. |
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| Kevlar | 12th August 2010 - 09:08 PM Post #4 |
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Doomwheel Driver
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The plague furnace is the best thing in the skaven army list. It is a no-brainer unit that can absorb an enormous amount of damage as well as dish a good deal back. I don't think I will ever make a list without it. 10 wide you are getting d6 str 5 impact hits, d6 again toughness tests, 42 st 3 attacks, 4 str 6 attacks, d10 str 5 wrecker attacks, and I always field mine with the banner of the under-empire for 2d6 more str 2 attacks. 77 possible attacks! It doesn't just win combat, it melts entire units off the table. The question isn't whether or not to field a furnace, but whether or not to field multiple furnaces. My priest dies all the time, I never tool him up for defense, just a flail and his T5. But he is really just an afterthought in that unit. They don't really need him to wreck stuff. He is rarely my only caster. If he was I'd invest in a ward save. |
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| Clanseer Skabrius | 12th August 2010 - 09:34 PM Post #5 |
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Lord of the Undermountain
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The people above said it, the Furnace is awesome. Keep it safe from shooting with a certain banner, Maybe a Warpgale on top of that, and watch it go through T3 units like a knife through hot butter. My Furnace once went clean through a unit of Black Guard with BSB (No survivors) and overran into an engaged unit of Witch Elves. Again, no elves lived to tell the tale. So it is vulnerable to shooting, but protect it, and it will bring you victory!
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| Paricidas | 12th August 2010 - 09:36 PM Post #6 |
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Doomwheel Driver
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If you are playing against highelfes, there are some things to consider: Dont run the furnace into an elite unit of them, they all have at least str4, mostly 5 or 6 and can wreck your furnace in one turn. Swordmasters will chop this thing to pieces in no time. On the other hand, if you run it into a horde of spearmen, it will be fatal. A maximum of 20 spears can attack the furnace or the priest. If they attack the priest, they lose out their reroll to hit, but they will probably kill him, so give him a ward save and he will be a very bad target for str3 troops. Now the enemy has to make a decision: Should he attack the monks or the furnace himself. If he attacks the monks, many will die, but as your first rank has 3 attacks, thats not so much of a problem and now he has to eat several str5 hits, if he decides to attack the furnace, even more monks live to fight another round. Combine this with the plague banner and a priest with a flail, and the spearmen will be torn to pieces (hopefully). Next thing problem is shooting, but that can be taken care of by the usual means. A stormbanner and two units of gutterrunners, a spell, a shadowmagnet etc. |
| Ceterum censeo Altdorfem esse delendam | |
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| Nurglus-the-Seeping | 12th August 2010 - 10:38 PM Post #7 |
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Clanrat
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In 8th the thing to really consider is the furnace as a component in the totality of the list. If you are running 1 furnace, surrounded by no other big threats (IE only slave, clanrat, and nightrunner blocks) then I feel in a theoryhammer sense it is a bad buy. Given how effective shooting, and in particular war machine shooting, has become you need to look at how target priority will affect your list. Now granted, you can't always determine how an opponent will react to your list, but you can try to look at your list in total and see how you would react to it. Given all objectives and situations being equal where would you concentrate your army's force? What would be the easiest and most readily available source of points to gather from your army? Consider the first and most obvious targets of almost any general and objective scenario: -The General -The BSB -Banners -Units where the points cost/ease of removal ratio is tempting. -Dangerous units which must be removed or tied up given their destructive potential. -Community attitude about certain units and their reputation. Given these consideration An enemy general will always attempt to kill your army's commander and BSB given the extra VP they provide and the crippling effects losing them will have on your army. Your Plague Furnace WILL also make an incredibly attractive target. The ease of kill/Points ratio is often very good on this unit, if the Furnace survives to make contact, especially on a charge, it will maul most units, and it has achieved an unfavorable reputation in the Warhammer community given the amount of dual or triple Furnace lists which were fielded in 7th. Neither the Priest or the Furnace have any inborn saves. Their only defense is their high Toughness and # of wounds, both of which make them prime targets for war machines and elite choppy units. Therefore fielding 1 Furnace without spreading the threat around is, in my opinion, like gift wrapping its VPs for the enemy. Now having given the darkside of the Furnace lets discuss the good things. It is very important to consider that this unit is wonderfully destructive, one of the hardest hitting and most feared units that the enemies of the Skaven can encounter. People are often VERY scared, and rightfully so, of what the Furnace will do to their units. Given the fact that the Furnace has Impact hits, Gas Tests, Wrecker Attacks, Plague Priest Attacks, makes its unit unbreakable, and also protects the unit slightly with MR 2, it becomes a unit the enemy MUST deal with. So in order to successfully utilize it you must field it intelligently. 1: Field Multiple threats: You MUST make certain that your army contains target saturation. If the only threatening unit you field is the Furnace it will be kindling before you get a chance to use it. Good additional examples to field would be 1) A kited Warlord on a Bonebreaker, 2) A HPA, 3) Big Units of PCBs/ Rat Ogres, 4) A Massive unit of SV, 5) A second Furnace etc... 2: Spread the risk: Separate and spread out individual models that are worth VPs. Put your General, BSB, and any high cost wizards in different units. This can also be utilized by bringing along multiple weapons teams. Weapons Teams become attractive targets because they are 1 wound, easy to kill VPs that walk around. You want to make certain that the Furnace is never THE obvious choice to kill unless you intend to make it such (IE to protect all the other things I just mentioned) 3: Have a plan to utilize the model: really I feel you must have some sort of plan on how best to utilize this unit when you include it in an army. You must decide on its function (Army anchor, Anvil, Hammer, Out flanker, distraction target,...) and field it as such. These decisions are going to help inform how you put the unit that will carry it into battle together. A Furnace that will help to anchor the line and serve as an anvil is going to take much more defensive gear and a bigger PM model count, than one that s designed as a hammer or distraction. The Pestilens list I am currently building and testing fields 2 PCC, a Poisonwind Mortar (or two), 2 Furnaces, a HPA, a big clanrat block with my BSB, and BIG units of PCBs. Within the 2 Furnace units I again try to spread the threat so that one does not become the extremely obvious choice to target. One block does contain my general, but the other has the second highest level mage (who I can try to legally stack the odds of getting the plague spell for suicide 6 dice casting) the magic standard, and a few other odds and ends that make choosing which furnace to target tricky, and not a no brainer. -Nurglus-the-Seeping-
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| Kevlar | 12th August 2010 - 11:51 PM Post #8 |
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Doomwheel Driver
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Good advice here. Most people by now are smart enough to know that it is the furnace, not the monks or even the priest they have to worry about. So beware of str 5+ units. A sacrificial knight unit or even a tooled up hero with the right gear can put a hurt on the furnace. Most likely a suicide charge but with the furnace gone the unit is fairly weak and easy to break in combat. What I do when I see stuff like swordmasters, graveguard with great weapons, cavalry, etc coming is give them my flank. Let them chew on some monks for a while until I can bring some flanking units in to finish them off. My furnace regularly holds up two, sometimes three units at once while the rest of my army gets in position and wipes them out. |
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