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Magic resistance and Death frenzy
Topic Started: 31st July 2010 - 02:41 PM (1,901 Views)
Mushkilla
Clanrat
In the BRB magic resistance says it gives you a ward save against any damage cause by spells.

Would a unit with magic resistance get a ward save against wounds inflicted by death frenzy? (seeing as it is a spell).

Eg: A lone assassin with MR(2) would get a 2+ ward save against the D6 wounds inflicted by death frenzy. Interesting?
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SkavenDan
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No it does not.

Magic resistance works vs direct damage spells Death Frenzie if any kind of classification is a unit buff.
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Mushkilla
Clanrat
SkavenDan
Jul 31 2010, 09:50 AM
No it does not.

Magic resistance works vs direct damage spells Death Frenzie if any kind of classification is a unit buff.

"magic resistance: A model with magic resistance has a bonus to its ward save when saving against damage caused by spells." - page 72 BRB

Unless it was in a faq I don't see where it says it is only applied against direct damage.

Death frenzy is an odd one I have to admit but what about other spells with risks for example warplightning.
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SkavenDan
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It's filed some where under the common sense section [Page 1313 of the book of SkavenDan] wounds caused by fatigure are not magic wounds, DF is no way treated as magical damage :P

Edit I just had to add:

How did I beat you?
Your think thats air your breathing now?

Take the blue pill.

Sorry forgot you mentioned warplightning. Anything that is obviously magicaly it works on so yes it works on warplightning as that is a direct damage spell the wizard simply backfires and zaps himself.
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Mushkilla
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SkavenDan
Jul 31 2010, 11:09 AM
Sorry forgot you mentioned warplightning. Anything that is obviously magicaly it works on so yes it works on warplightning as that is a direct damage spell the wizard simply backfires and zaps himself.

Don't worry, I'm not a mad man from warseer! :D I'm not looking for some crazy way to exploit the rules (see the current discussion on the lore of heavens attribute). I was just wondering if magic resistance could be used to protect oneself from the downside of spells.

Like I said death frenzy is probably not the best spell to use as an example. (because of the whole it's a weird spell/frenzy/not a spell issue that comes with it) Even if it did work it would be horribly impractical.

But take for example a spell from the WoC book like:

Hysterical frenzy: RMP, Target unit is frenzied... suffers D3 S3 hits at the start of each player turn.

Would you agree that magic resistance works against that although it is not a direct damage spell?
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Charming
Clanrat
I think a more fitting example of a spell could be something like "Treason of Tzeench" (all "ordinary guys" in the unit attacks themselves). I wouldn't say you'd get MR against that, and that's the most obvious similar spell I can think of.
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SkavenDan
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Hysterical frenzy does not state that is it magicaly damage so they get no magic resistance. It is just the same as us unless they some specific wording I haven't seen about the spell.
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Ratemis
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SkavenDan
Aug 1 2010, 04:47 PM
Hysterical frenzy does not state that is it magicaly damage so they get no magic resistance. It is just the same as us unless they some specific wording I haven't seen about the spell.

Based purely on the rules, you still get MR against the damage caused by the spell. The damage doesn't have to be magical, it just has to be damage caused by the spell.



Think of it this way. Someone is able to resist the effects of Death Frenzy enough to not totally exhaust themselves to death, but not enough to fully shake off the effects of the spell. So rather than run to death and flail wildly they are able to slow down enough to catch their breath and make renewed attacks of fury, where the spell would make them run to death.
They go from the deer that runs itself to death from exhaustion, to the persistence hunter who slows down every once in a while, but continues to chase the deer to it's death from exhaustion.
Speedy and furious, but in control. A red hot firestorm to a hotter controlled flame.

Someone who makes the MR ward save against Treason of Tzeentch is able to avoid attacking his friends, and is capable of enough reasoning to defend themselves, rather than just attack his fellows in a fury.
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Kevlar
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Quote:
 
Based purely on the rules, you still get MR against the damage caused by the spell. The damage doesn't have to be magical, it just has to be damage caused by the spell.



Think of it this way. Someone is able to resist the effects of Death Frenzy enough to not totally exhaust themselves to death, but not enough to fully shake off the effects of the spell. So rather than run to death and flail wildly they are able to slow down enough to catch their breath and make renewed attacks of fury, where the spell would make them run to death.
They go from the deer that runs itself to death from exhaustion, to the persistence hunter who slows down every once in a while, but continues to chase the deer to it's death from exhaustion.
Speedy and furious, but in control. A red hot firestorm to a hotter controlled flame.

Someone who makes the MR ward save against Treason of Tzeentch is able to avoid attacking his friends, and is capable of enough reasoning to defend themselves, rather than just attack his fellows in a fury.

I would think no, especially since the spell doesn't cause the damage, it is a side effect you roll for at the end of the turn for being so exhausted.
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Kraven Tailblade
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SkavenDan
Jul 31 2010, 11:09 AM
It's filed some where under the common sense section [Page 1313 of the book of SkavenDan] wounds caused by fatigure are not magic wounds, DF is no way treated as magical damage :P

Edit I just had to add:

How did I beat you?
Your think thats air your breathing now?

Take the blue pill.

Sorry forgot you mentioned warplightning. Anything that is obviously magicaly it works on so yes it works on warplightning as that is a direct damage spell the wizard simply backfires and zaps himself.

LOL. 99% wont even know what that is referring to. I love that story..... ;)
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SkavenDan
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No way once the spell is cast it is no longer in the realm of magic and magic caused damage the affects could last the hole game and the damage caused from DF is to off set the amazing bonus it gives you.
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zap2828
Clanrat
By the rules it is damage caused by a spell, so MR would work on it, but it shouldn't.
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chieftainskritchskritch
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SkavenDan
Jul 31 2010, 11:09 AM
It's filed some where under the common sense section [Page 1313 of the book of SkavenDan] wounds caused by fatigure are not magic wounds, DF is no way treated as magical damage :P

Unless, of course, its magical fatigue :o :P

For the record, I dont think its in the spirit of the rules to get a ward save vs Death Frenzy casualties. Its a RAW vs RAI thing.
You kids these days have it so easy, what with your Plague Furnaces and your Hellpit Abominations and your Bonebreaker Warlords. Back in MY day, all we had was Slaves and Clanrats!...and auto-hit Ratling Guns...and skirmishing Jezzails...and 2D6 Warp Lightning...and Lead From The Back...wait, what was my arguement again?
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SkavenDan
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There are no ifs buts or maybes once it is cast it can not be dispelled there by making it kinda clear that it is no longer treated as a spell in any regards.
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zap2828
Clanrat
Except that the wounds are caused by a spells effects, there not cause by an overall exhaustion rule that exists in the game. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't play it that way and would call somebody cheese for doing so themselves, but strictly read as worded you would get magic resistance.
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