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| How competitive are Skaven now?; Newbie needs soothing chatter. | ||
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| Tweet Topic Started: 17th July 2010 - 07:01 PM (1,440 Views) | ||
| superscenic | 17th July 2010 - 07:01 PM Post #1 | |
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Hi ratties. I would like to know how competitive you think Skaven are now with the new edition. I notice some experienced players don't have too many wins in their signatures and I suspect this is due to some earlier edition cheesiness in terms of other sales-favored races. I also see there is a new boxed set out which include skaven and this seems like a good omen showing of GW favoritism. Thank You superscenic. |
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My Terrain My Modular cave and Lava board Tyranid buildings made easy | ||
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| Swissdictator | 17th July 2010 - 07:15 PM Post #2 | |
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Steampunk Engineer
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My guess is worst case scenario, we will be able to compete on the tournament scene, and do just fine in friendly games. We have cool magic that can really do a lot for our game. We also have a variety of characters to augment our forces. We have dirt cheap troops that can help outnumber the enemy 3 to 1 if we want. Clanrats with spears are a very viable option and we can take them in very large numbers. Our Skryre weaponry is very brutal, granted it can backfire a bit, but they're more than worth their points if you don't get too reckless with them. They're all pretty cook, to be honest. We have solid initiative on almost everything, so we're only going to be beaten by Elves, Chaos Warriors, and some elites out there. Our Stomvermin and Eshin troops can even match Elves, granted HE still have ASF. The giant rats and slaves are just begging to be taken in large numbers. Giant rats, I think, will be amazing now. Run them as a horde and fight in four ranks for dirt cheap costs. Plague Monks can be pretty brutal if fielded right, a large unit of them with Plague Banner can be pretty brutal... especially against something that isn't heavily armored. Stormvermin are so much more viable now in my opinion. The good I helps them go first more often than not. Plus, even if they don't, if you take a decent sized unit, you'll get full attacks back. I'd consider the armor piercing banner for a very deadly unit. We really have it good. I'm not saying we're going to be a Tier 1 army, though I could certainly see some nasty builds being out there. Plus it's hard to say what tiers will be at all for a few months I think, at the earliest. I do think that we will perform well, and have a variety of options open to us. That's they key point. When an army can compete well, even if requires decent leadership and/or luck, with a fair variety of builds... than it is a well designed army. I think Skaven fit that description. |
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Twisted, evil, treacherous, and diabolical rats wielding arcane technologies that are dangerous to foe and friend, that care not for their kin and are constantly plotting against each other. What more need I say about what makes Skaven cool? My Skaven Blog Updated November 29, 2009. 7:57 PM (-6 GMT) Have spare little rats from the old clanrats, current plague monks, corpse cart, or individual rats from the doom wheel? PM me. I want them. 30 more needed. | ||
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| SkavenDan | 18th July 2010 - 09:13 PM Post #3 | |
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Doomwheel Fanatic
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Skaven have always walked a fine line when updates hit we usually manage to dodge the bullet on critical nurfs. I would say skaven will be in the top 5 armies. It is hard to know for sure at this point though. | |
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| Shivan_Angel | 19th July 2010 - 04:09 PM Post #4 | |
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Stormvermin
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Personal opinion after playing a few 8th games is we are a top tier army now. |
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| blader4411 | 19th July 2010 - 04:31 PM Post #5 | |
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The New Lunar Republic!
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With the current climate, personal experience gives me this top tier: Daemons High Elves Skaven Dark Elves Warriors of Chaos Daemons still have all their benefits, but as you will notice, all these armies feature high initiative, good magic, and generally killing ability, as well as a variety of units for a variety of scenarios, these armies can take on any phase (except Warriors are rather limited in shooting), and stand a fair chance of dominating at least one phase each game. So yes, Skaven are good, in fact I think they got a strong boost with 8th Edition. -Blader |
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| Shivan_Angel | 19th July 2010 - 04:33 PM Post #6 | |
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Stormvermin
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I dont think high elves are as high as some people are rating them... Yeah the ASF rules are a nice bonus, however stepping up really really really hurt elves. T3 and generally poor armor saves make them very squishy... |
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| Patchy | 19th July 2010 - 05:14 PM Post #7 | |
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Chieftain
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i agree, elves are going to have a hard time, i even pull OnG up near the top now. they can muster some massive hordes as well now, that will be awesome to see OnG get some love. Vampires i think got the biggest end of the stick, low Int poor weapon skill and more attacks against them is really going to hurt and no more fear auto breaks makes it worse for them. but in saying that they are still a mid level army. |
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| Assassin kill toll: 1 oldblood, 1 vampire lord, 2 chaos lords, Bretonnian lord, 3 Minotaurs and numerous champions with overkill. An ever growing list! | ||
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| carcharoth | 19th July 2010 - 11:34 PM Post #8 | |
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Slayer of Lizardmen
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skaven faired pretty well this edition, especially now that we get steadfast with SiN. the only thing we really missed out on is the new lores. | |
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| Pestilent Lord | 20th July 2010 - 12:47 AM Post #9 | |
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Doomwheel Driver
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Not to mention they need to spend 2 power dice per roll to raise their losses without gambling the rest of their magic phase. |
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“A player is never late, Dave. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when the plot dictates he should.” Skaven 7th: W/L/D 6/5/2 High Elves: 2/3/1 | ||
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| jamano | 20th July 2010 - 05:30 AM Post #10 | |
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Clanrat
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If you bring more necromancers it lets you one dice even more effectively because they get the +1 to cast it. I think High elves are extremely powerful is you use magic(they have the items to abuse the magic phase the most, and the new lore buffs will be very handy for those t3 elves |
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| spino | 20th July 2010 - 04:56 PM Post #11 | |
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Chieftain
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A 'natural' dice roll total of 1 or 2 is an automatic failure. So regardless of the wizard's level or any rule/power/item 'to cast' bonuses tossing one dice at a spell is seriously tempting fate thanks to its 33% chance of failure. And in 8th ed once a caster fails to cast a spell he/she may not cast again that phase. |
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| Ratastrophe | 21st July 2010 - 05:24 AM Post #12 | |
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Clanrat
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I think he meant that vamps can get around this by taking a lot of lvl 1 wizards. Throw one dice at spell, and if the wizard fails, oh well, you have a bunch more that can still try. Granted, these will be easy to dispell if you have a lvl 4 seer. | |
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| reddogfish77 | 22nd July 2010 - 09:23 AM Post #13 | |
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Grey Seer
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i hate to disagree... i think HE will be just about the top now. combination with being able to choose their spells and the book of hoeth which i dont think causes miscasts because of the wording... a large unit with spears backed up by shadow magic would crush everything... everything. with the mindrazor spell you would be looking at S8 rerolling to hit attacks in up to five ranks if you run a horde. if you dont get it off you can still redure their T or for something different you can run death magic and use the purple sun anywhere... most elves will only fail on 6's. everything else with high T generally will have low I. their access to magic variety of units and close combat orientated army should kick butt... skaven on the other hand lost the advantage to death frenzy units of clanrats and slaves with spears and attacking with 4 times the number of attacks of your opponent. doomwheel was nerfed. our magic became a lot less competitive. still wouldnt trade them for anything. but i think HE will definately be top teir along with lizardmen. lizardmen and light magic = ouch. |
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| Kariko83 | 22nd July 2010 - 10:26 AM Post #14 | |
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The lurker in the shadows
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I think you are over estimating the power of said unit and magic. While yes, the book of Hoeth allows you to cast with IF on any doubles, it also can only be taken by a lord. It also can not be taken with the item that allows you to choose your spells as the book costs 100pts on its own. The biggest problem they have is that they are still T3 with a 5+ save so shooting will eat them for lunch. At 360pts for the caster and 275pts for a unit of 25 spear elves with the magic res banner you are already over 25% of the army in a single unit. For 180pts we could get 2 warp lightning cannons that can, with average rolls, destroy this unit in a round or two of shooting. Heck even the plague catapult could destroy the unit. Even in combat we should come out on top as the game is more geared towards attrition than before. In 7th edition elves relied on killing those that could attack to keep from dying as their armor is tissue paper. Now though they cant kill of the front rank to stop attacks back so even a lowly slave unit with spears can put the hurt on them, especially when they blow up. Truthfully I think Dark Elves and us are neck and neck for the top spot competitively. We both have good shooting while Dark elves have stronger magic and we can bring shear numbers to bear. Hrmm I guess I am going to have to play against the local Dark Elf player again this week end to see how good of a match up they are in practice. |
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Local Challenge board Record W-L-D 6th ed Skaven 8-3-0 7th ed skaven 6-1-0 13th Spell Times Cast: 8 Kill Counter: 14 Maraders, 38 Saurus warriors, 8 high elf bowmen, 20 Empire Handgunners and 14 Dwarf Handgunners WIP Abomination Thread Skaven in 7th ed: a WIP tactics article By Kariko83 ![]()
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| reddogfish77 | 22nd July 2010 - 11:14 AM Post #15 | |
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Grey Seer
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cant remember the name of the item but HE have something that allows you to choose your spells. take it on a lv 2 wiz then choose the spells you dont want on your lord. easy way to get around it. so with all the sword masters white lions and phoneix guard on the table and dragon princes of course you will be targeting basic spearmen with large template wpns. all i am saying is the access to all the lores, the ability to really take the spells with the wizard you want and a great variety for troops makes HE a really tough ask. dont forhet you can always take beast magic or the lore of life and increase your units toughness by 4. but my personal favourite would be shadow and death. especially like the idea of casting purple sun close to your lines and wiping out half a unit you are in combat with then striking first and killing the rest. also i think the generic magic items really help elves a bit. I have a q though. do swordmasters have to strike in initiative order or do they still strike first... have a feeling they will no longer be the hard hitting troop choice of HE. |
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