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Big changes with the 8ed faq
Topic Started: 9th July 2010 - 09:48 PM (2,186 Views)
Warlock Matik
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(Z–>)90º – (E–N²W)90ºt = 1

You know, I have been meaning to make an eye appointment :unsure: Sorry everyone :P
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Ratemis
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Made of 110% Skaven!
Battle_Seeker_Clron
Jul 12 2010, 03:38 PM
What does everyone think about Plague Monks now that you can not get the bonus for frenzy and AHW? That was a change I did not see coming. Or at least I believe that is what I gathered from the rules. Both frenzy and AHW give the model the extra attack rule that can only be given once. Essentially doubling up on the added attack is not allowed.

Someone have a book handy and can clarify it for me?

Nothing says you can't have the Extra Attack special rule twice. Once from Frenzy, once from AHW
My Skaven Army, now with Testudorats!
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Shivan_Angel
Stormvermin
One of the things im not to keen on anymore is HAVING to make the wrecker attacks with the plague furnace.

It clearly says in the rulebook that you can do this, then they errata i so you HAVE to do this.

Anyone else ever intentionally hold back their furnace from making the wrecker attack so it wouldnt wound itself when you had clearly won the combat?
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Bobtailmaneater
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Grey Seer
Shivan_Angel
Jul 13 2010, 08:37 AM
One of the things im not to keen on anymore is HAVING to make the wrecker attacks with the plague furnace.

It clearly says in the rulebook that you can do this, then they errata i so you HAVE to do this.

Anyone else ever intentionally hold back their furnace from making the wrecker attack so it wouldnt wound itself when you had clearly won the combat?

Yup, and I think it sucks. I can see where they are going from a fluff perspective - that frenzied troops just attack, attack, attack and never stop to think about the consequences, but at some point you have to wonder whether we as players are being stripped of our ability to be tacticians. I have actually stopped taking Monks almost entirely because even the most newbie general out there knows how to bait them and it just ends up disrupting my battle line. (Note, a unit or two of PCB's is still a mainstay in my lists, but how to use them properly in 8th edition, with the new skirmish rules, remains to be seen).

The Furnace, with the 25% point limit on characters, is just not a great deal anymore, when you can have 2 warlords now tooled up for combat for about the same cost and be free of that annoying frenzy rule.
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Shivan_Angel
Stormvermin
uhhh being able to hold back a frenzied charge with a ld test makes the furnace even more powerful then it was before imo.
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Decker_cky
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Master of the Deamonic Leash of Numbers and the Armor of Updates
Nothing else in the game had the choice not to attack in close combat (aside from the old cautious shield and maybe 1 or 2 exceptions), so I don't have an issue with it.
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Skreetz the Fabricator
Skyre warlock/converter
Bobtailmaneater
Jul 13 2010, 09:49 AM
I have actually stopped taking Monks almost entirely because even the most newbie general out there knows how to bait them and it just ends up disrupting my battle line.

On the same note most generals learn rather quickly how to avoid letting a unit get baited.

Two units of clanrats/slaves caddy corner to the monk unit on each side will block your side arcs while still giving you room to charge. Here is some ASCII art with the x being slaves or clanrats or something similar and the p being plague monks.

xxxxx.........xxxxx
xxxxx.........xxxxx
xxxxx.........xxxxx
.........ppppp
.........ppppp
.........ppppp

Another thing I have seen about frenzy is you cant be baited out of a unit anymore. The way I read the rule anyway suggests that if one model has frenzy and must charge the whole unit charges (after the leadership test if you dont want them to charge).
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Bobtailmaneater
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Grey Seer
O.k., thanks, I will try that sometime soon! But I am still unsure if using up a big chunk of the character point allowance on the furnace is a good deal or not, vs. 2 killy lords (one on a litter, the other on a bone breaker), 3 x WE's with death globe, doomrocket, brass orb, and a Seer to lead the army (yes, I know, that's a lot of points!)
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Skreetz the Fabricator
Skyre warlock/converter
I would probably go with lots of engineers, most upgraded to lvl 1 for the cheap channeling rolls, and then give them lots of fun stuff that will probably end up exploding and killing them. But im not a big fan of the furnace. It just seems a bit to fragile to me when compared to the bell (cheap ward save + MR should help it live).

I have been wanting to try out some plague spells lately so I have been tossing around the idea of a full block of plague monks with a priest on foot (or perhaps that pox rat) with the censor.

One cool thing about 8th ed is it turns most old tactics on their heads and forces us to re-evaluate the units and what is good and how to use everything.
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Swissdictator
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Steampunk Engineer
I'm still fairly happy, and with my facing the reality of (sadly) having to retire my Chaos Dwarfs more and more... Skaven offer the steampunk madness I want.

The warplock pistol is still useful. Wraiths, which sound better in their FAQ, can be wounded by it. Forest Spirits lose their ward to it, plus it can always stand and shoot like any other pistol which is always nice.

Plus as someone said, it's just cool!


I could see the Doomwheel not being able to maneuver being changed in the rolling FAQs they've suggested are coming. I'm skeptical, but I'd love it if they did that. Still, it might make for less cries of cheese when I have the wheel and cannon in my list... so I'm happy, as I *love* that figure.


The furnace not being able to hold back makes perfect sense to me, for a variety of reasons. So I'm perfectly fine with that, and would have been shocked otherwise. Though restraining frenzy is *huge*, and adds a lot of potential for Plague Monks (on their own or with a furnace), and the Censer Bearers.


I am finding the Steadfast/Strength in Numbers thing a little odd. So it is a bonus to the stubborn? Does that mean those bonuses to our leadership can be reduced, or are we just stubborn with +1-3 to the leadership? Am I just over thinking it?
Twisted, evil, treacherous, and diabolical rats wielding arcane technologies that are dangerous to foe and friend, that care not for their kin and are constantly plotting against each other. What more need I say about what makes Skaven cool?

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Have spare little rats from the old clanrats, current plague monks, corpse cart, or individual rats from the doom wheel? PM me. I want them. 30 more needed.
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Battle_Seeker_Clron
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Clanrat
Warlock Matik
Jul 12 2010, 05:42 PM
You know, I have been meaning to make an eye appointment :unsure: Sorry everyone :P

A mistake is a mistake I made the same one, but I was also just reading this same issue being debated on warseer.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266317

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Ratastrophe
Clanrat
If I'm not mistaken, can't you take 25% hero AND 25% lord? So doesn't furnace not count towards the point limit of your warlords?
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Ratemis
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Made of 110% Skaven!
Ratastrophe
Jul 14 2010, 03:58 PM
If I'm not mistaken, can't you take 25% hero AND 25% lord? So doesn't furnace not count towards the point limit of your warlords?

Yes, but it still cuts into points for BSBs, minor casters, backup leadership characters, ect.
My Skaven Army, now with Testudorats!
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" However, Bonebreakers have another mark against them now. Going up a hill can kill your warlord if you roll bad. Should call them Neckbreakers
"Get down from there! You could fall and break your neck!""
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Jazz22
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Chieftain
Right-o, the Furnace is really losing it for me in 8th. It's such a huge chunk of change out of the hotly contested Hero allocation that I've been seriously considering stacking a few cheap Warlocks with a BSB instead to push home the magic power. While the Furnace still has a lot of punch, the prevalence of artillery and nasty magic makes it hard to get the dang thing where you need it. Lore of Shadow alone is enough to swing me away from the Furnace and toward something a little more consistent for the points cost.
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SkavenDan
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I always thought it was a lousy choice and taking more than was 1 was instant lose of the sportsmanship. I have to laugh at those people who ran out and got 3 and made the cheese list and now it's not that hard to handle. lol
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