| Stormvermin; blocks, or flankers? | ||
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| Tweet Topic Started: 4th July 2010 - 11:10 PM (1,977 Views) | ||
| SkavenDan | 6th July 2010 - 09:24 AM Post #16 | |
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Doomwheel Fanatic
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No need to apologies. It's interesting that you say they have gone down the shooting line only dwarfs and empire that I know have gone shooty the elfs and such have dropped a lot of fire power again me for more combat stuff. Can't say I disagree either dark elf spearmen for 6 points with hatred is cheap if you ask me. | |
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| maxkool | 11th July 2010 - 08:43 PM Post #17 | |
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Clanrat
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I ran a block of 20 with queek and his upgrade (gets u to that core min much quicker) last nite ina game. I kept them back and used them to flank while my 3 blocks of 50 slaves each got chewed up. They mowed through everything I charged... Having queek in there made for some major killing of normal/lite elite troops. This is only one game sofar but Ill keep running them and lecha know when it goes bad... yah queek is a tad pricy but he is full of killy.... |
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!!!!!WANTED!!!!! 6TH Ed Clanrats... you know, the good ol Monkey rats.. Painted or not, Assembled or not... PM me and we can work somthing out. | ||
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| Kevlar | 11th July 2010 - 09:07 PM Post #18 | |
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Doomwheel Driver
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Queek isn't bad at all. Compared to a regular tooled up warlord he is probably a bit undercosted for all his abilities. Heck he is worth the extra for the LD8 even without the discounted magic items he carries. Makes rallying a lot easier. |
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| WiLDRAGE | 12th July 2010 - 01:48 PM Post #19 | |
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Clanrat
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So far I've played two games under 8th edition, both of them with a block of 30 Stormvermin. One game I played with Queek, the other without. In the game with Queek, the unit pretty much steamrolled anything it hit. In the game without Queek, the unit wasn't as violent. To be fair, I was playing against Dwarves that time, though. But Strength 5 would have been very useful against T4 and 3+ Armor Saves -- plus Queek would have eaten anything in challenges! I really like the Stormvermin (plus the models are amazing). Next game I play where I don't use Queek, I will try them as small flanker units. |
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| Deathblane | 12th July 2010 - 04:53 PM Post #20 | |
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Warlord
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I'm also interested in the 14 strong flanking unit combined with the 25-30 strong pinning CR unit. Mathhammering the CR's (with Shield) will give away more combat res against more elite infantry but not average or low quality stuff, and obviously you mind losing CR's about half as much as losing SV. Slaves can work but you'll never win combat due to the combat res they give up. Theoryhammering I like the flexibility of having more units on the field, and although they're more easily made combat ineffective there seems to be a lot of things that'll one shot large units nowdays anyway so it may still be a safer option. | |
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| SkyreContraption | 12th July 2010 - 06:06 PM Post #21 | |
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I run my stormvermin in a unit of 50.. i'm crazy yes yes! well my warlord is on such a base that he replaces 9 models.. so with 41 stormvermin models i get a unit of 50 i also throw in a BSB for fun! the unit has full command but i'm not sure which banner to give them.. it's a pricey unit.. to say the least.. but i think it will perform very well and it will be a tough one to crack. for the warlord i'll use some pretty cool looking options i saw here on the boards he is on a war-litter and I've seen some cool combinations with that. my army is built to look good but not to perform optimally. |
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| fantasypisces | 12th July 2010 - 08:23 PM Post #22 | |
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Clan Aungia
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At my LGS, myself and another Skaven player both tried a unit of 30 stormvermin. Mine had a warlord on war-litter in the unit and I used them more as an anvil (but that was more a result of the mission and terrain setup then anything, wasn't a lot of space for flanks). And my honest impression is: I wasn't impressed. They died just as fast as clan rats, and maybe caused 1-2 more wounds. With how big blocks of infantry are now, those 1-2 wounds don't mean to much. The other skaven player used his as a flanking force, and he agreed, he thought clanrats would have done just as well. The reason being, higher 'I' isn't the end-all-be-all. Because of step-up/only removing casualties from the rear. You can kill as many of the opponents models as you want really, but he will still strike back and kill as many Stormvermin as he would clanrats (with shields, mind you, which I always take). So in the end, I would only take stormvermin over clanrats if for some reason I needed another magic banner. |
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| Last Game: Victory vs Warrior of Chaos | ||
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| Deathblane | 13th July 2010 - 10:49 AM Post #23 | |
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Warlord
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Ok so mathammer time. A WS3 S3 T3 A1 model will cause 1/6 of a wound against a SV (0.17), or 5/36 of a wound against a CR with a shield (0.14). Assuming the model has a shield and light armour the SV will cause 25/81 of a wound (0.31) while the CR will cause 5/36 (0.12). So in this case it's better to pin the unit in place with cheaper and more survivable CR's and cause wounds on the flank with SV, where they'll take half the attacks back. Now a WS4 S3 T3 A1 model with HW&S will cause 5/27 wounds to the CR (0.19) and 1/6 to the SV (0.17). Further increases in S will affect the SV worse as they don't have the 6+ ward. Attacking back the SV will cause 25/108 (0.23) wounds while the CR will cause 5/36 again (0.12). Therefore CR's with shields are invariably the more survivable option, but SV will usually cause twice the wounds. So in my mind Queeks headtakers aside I think SV are more viable as a flanking 14 strong unit and CR's will remain the staple for our core infantry, even when pushing the bell. |
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| WarpFodder | 13th July 2010 - 02:40 PM Post #24 | |
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Warlord
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The war litter is supposed to be 40x40mm base, if your playing friendly games im sure it will be fine. But in a tourney setting im sure some ppl would have issue with it. To be fair im planning on using a unit of 10x5 horde of stormvermin 45 SV with a BSB and warlord on warlitter. |
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| If we weren't meant to eat animals they wouldn't be made of food! | ||
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| Decker_cky | 13th July 2010 - 04:05 PM Post #25 | |
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Master of the Deamonic Leash of Numbers and the Armor of Updates
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Errrr...where's your source for that? Like all the units without models, the base size is kind of irrelevant so long as it's not unreasonable. And with stormvermin, it's a disadvantage having a bigger base since it limits attacks. There's not much (if any) advantage to bigger bases in 8th edition anymore. |
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| SkavenDan | 13th July 2010 - 04:35 PM Post #26 | |
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Doomwheel Fanatic
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I thought it was in the old FAQ that said it's definitly not in the new one. It is suppose to be 40x40 I think it's widely known now I mean where does it stop? Theres no base for my model so he is 10x3 ok? lol |
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| SkavenDan | 13th July 2010 - 04:38 PM Post #27 | |
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Doomwheel Fanatic
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Yeah it was quote Q. What are the Unit Strengths and base size of a War-litter? And what about a Bonebreaker? A. For both models, we suggest using a Unit Strength of 3 (plus 1 for the Warlord), and a base size of 40mm square. However, do keep in mind that, as for all conversions, there are no strict rules about base size (other than: ‘Be reasonable!’), and that any forthcoming Citadel miniature might be different from this suggested size. |
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| Skreetz the Fabricator | 13th July 2010 - 05:04 PM Post #28 | |
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Skyre warlock/converter
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GW suggested in the old FAQ that the warlitter should be on a 40x40 base. Nowhere did they say it has to be on one. In the new FAQ it dosnt mention base size at all and it dosnt say anything about it anywhere else either. | |
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| Bobtailmaneater | 13th July 2010 - 05:25 PM Post #29 | |
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Grey Seer
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I think it unlikely that GW's eventual official models for the bonebreaker and warlitter will be anything other than 40mm. I don't think they will force you to put your Warlitter on the side of a unit, or not allow a bonebreaker to form up in a unit with other rat ogres. I just hope they clarify at some point that the "old" FAQ answers (from just a month ago?) are still valid in terms of the Look out Sir rules in 8th editon, now that unit strength is no longer in the game. Unfortunately they have a bad habit of letting these corrolary issues slip through the cracks. As far as I am concerned, until they say otherwise, I will assume they didn't mean to strip us of the Look out Sir just because we'd technically be mixing monstrous infantry with a monstrous mount of the same type as the said infantry...but what do I know? I won't have the 8th edition rule book in my hands until Friday
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![]() Bobtail's links: *My Sculpting and Converting Blog on UE *My Article on the Skaven Runic Alphabet | ||
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| Skreetz the Fabricator | 13th July 2010 - 07:15 PM Post #30 | |
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Skyre warlock/converter
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*puts on rules lawyering hat* It says under Monstrous Beasts that when a model is riding a Monstrous Beast the rules can be found under the monstrous cav section. It dosnt say the unit type changes to monstrous cav. Therefor the argument could be made that you still get the LOS roll. :ph43r: |
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