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Consensus on Make Way! rule and Bell/Furnace?
Topic Started: 4th July 2010 - 07:10 AM (1,010 Views)
Chainer86


I was looking at the new 8th edition rules and came across the Make Way! rule. For anyone

who has seen the 8th edition rule book and has come across this rule I would like to ask, do

you think this would work with a plague priest on a plague furnace or a grey seer on a

screaming bell? It would be nice to get my plague furnace into base contact with anything that

flanks or gets my rear before combat starts, but I am unsure as the rules seem to be a little

hazy to me on how it would work with larger base heroes.



P.S. - I am unsure what I can quote from the book verbatim, but the hazy comes from the last

line of the rule stating that only a character whose footprint is compatible with the unit's rank

and file is capable of preforming this. I think as the rules are written that the plague

furnace/screaming bell are compatible with the unit's rank and file, but I have to admit I am

unsure what that actually means.



P.P.S - The rule is on page 100 of the miniature rule book.
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SkavenDan
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I have thought about this myself. I imagine it will be in the faq or the rule book faq under mixed units. I think they will say it should stay in the centre of the unit but who knows.
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Pestilent Lord
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I kind of think the current Skaven FAQ is clear about this issue, the Furnace/Bell is stuck front and center. If an enemy hits you on the side its still stuck there.
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Ratarsed
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I do believe however, if you win combat you can re-form which will get the furnace into combat.
Also if you lose combat I think you can re-form if you pass a leadership test (will need confirmation on this as I'm not entirely sure). With BSB and general nearby that's two chances at a 7 or less to get the furnace in.
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Seerlord Morskitta
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Unfortunately with this reform you are not allowed to reduce the number of models in contact - so unless they change that in the Skaven FAQ no turning the Furnace :(
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Kevlar
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Prints_Seer_Nook
Jul 4 2010, 09:48 AM
Unfortunately with this reform you are not allowed to reduce the number of models in contact - so unless they change that in the Skaven FAQ no turning the Furnace :(

Are you really reducing the amount of models though? Priest + furnace + crew are displacing what, 3 monks? So 8 wounds displacing 3?
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krosanreaper
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Kevlar
Jul 4 2010, 10:00 AM
Prints_Seer_Nook
Jul 4 2010, 09:48 AM
Unfortunately with this reform you are not allowed to reduce the number of models in contact - so unless they change that in the Skaven FAQ no turning the Furnace :(

Are you really reducing the amount of models though? Priest + furnace + crew are displacing what, 3 monks? So 8 wounds displacing 3?

Ya, I doubt anybody but the rules lawyers will try and stop a furnace reform with that rule.

I'ts to stop you from going, "oh doodoo my horde is losing, rank up." Which can still be done just not as effectively.
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Ratarsed
Grey Seer
Unless the unit is very deep you should still be able to have at least the same number models in base contact. Assuming a plague monk unit 5 deep charged by a 5 wide unit, you could reform to 7 wide and still have 5 models in base contact.
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Skreetz the Fabricator
Skyre warlock/converter
the rule for the bell (and probably the furnace also) called "pushed into combat" or something like that says that the bell always has to be at the front of the unit. No trying to hide it with the reform but I agree you should be able to reform to get it into combat on the side.
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Ratemis
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Kevlar
Jul 4 2010, 10:00 AM
Prints_Seer_Nook
Jul 4 2010, 09:48 AM
Unfortunately with this reform you are not allowed to reduce the number of models in contact - so unless they change that in the Skaven FAQ no turning the Furnace :(

Are you really reducing the amount of models though? Priest + furnace + crew are displacing what, 3 monks? So 8 wounds displacing 3?

The terminology used for the rule is that you may not use the reform to take a model out of combat if it was in combat before the reform.

However, the FAQ ruling on the Bell/furnace is that the model is stuck unplace until the unit can maneuver/reform again. So it can potentially be reformed into a corner of combat if it's not replacing a model that was already in combat. Only real option I see of this is if you do your reform to increase the frontage of the unit, and the bell/furnace can somehow get in on a corner.
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slyrambo
Clanrat
the make way rule does not work for the bell, funace because in our book it says that the model has to be in the front and centre of the unit pushing it at all times, even if it breaks up command, and the riders on top of them cannot dismount it. in cannot leave the centre of the unit for any reason

sooooooooo.....yeaaaah thare u go
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Skreetz the Fabricator
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slyrambo
Jul 7 2010, 11:50 AM
the make way rule does not work for the bell, funace because in our book it says that the model has to be in the front and centre of the unit pushing it at all times, even if it breaks up command, and the riders on top of them cannot dismount it. in cannot leave the centre of the unit for any reason

sooooooooo.....yeaaaah thare u go

A combat reform is similar to a normal reform in what it lets you do, with some special rules to combat reforms as you are in a combat. A reform lets you change the frontage of your unit and so a combat reform also lets you change which way is forward (in the case of a flank/rear attack) and also where the models are, right?

The only problem is keeping the same models in combat. That would mean you could only have 4 models in combat on the side you want to put the furnace because you would take up the space of 3 models in combat in order to put the furnace into combat and, assuming your enemy has a frontage of 5, you would then have a frontage of 7 after the reform. Obviously this changes with horde formation and depending on what base size you are fighting.

I hope all that made sense to someone other than me.
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SkavenDan
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Skreetz the Fabricator
Jul 7 2010, 06:21 PM
I hope all that made sense to someone other than me.

Made sense to me also page 11 of the new rule book.

;)
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Rubberchrist
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Ratemis
Jul 4 2010, 03:26 PM
The terminology used for the rule is that you may not use the reform to take a model out of combat if it was in combat before the reform.

I don't think the intention of that rule is to leave the exact same 4 models in place, just that after a reform you do not reduce the number in contact, or replace the models with different ones (goblins for orc boys, for instance).

At the very least, I would certainly not yell at an opponent for not disassembling an entire block of troops just to leave their exact same four models in contact when turning the whole tray would yield the same ultimate gameplay effect. (Champions and characters are of course another matter)
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Ratarsed
Grey Seer
Rubberchrist
Jul 7 2010, 09:28 PM
Ratemis,Jul 4 2010
03:26 PM
I don't think the intention of that rule is to leave the exact same 4 models in place, just that after a reform you do not reduce the number in contact, or replace the models with different ones (goblins for orc boys, for instance).


That is my thoughts as well. If it has to be the very same models, it will potentialy mean many units cannot reform if charged in the flank if they contain command models that must be in the front rank. I'm certain this is not the intention of the rule, but rather you must not reduce the number of models fighting.
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