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step up and plague censer bearers; step up will hurt censer bearers
Topic Started: 17th May 2010 - 12:06 AM (2,663 Views)
slyrambo
Clanrat
with the rumor of step up for 8th editions, casualties will be removed from the back rank. which really screws over plague censer bearers because the whole point of them were to wipe out the front rank of enemy units and autimatically win combat with a ton of kills. now with the step up rule, the enemy can whipe them out depending on who your attacking. example black guard, phoenix guard, any elite hitting unit will most likely wipe them out.

this rule will make plague censer bearers less effective. thats only if this rule is offician in the new book.

gimme your thoughts on this one

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Pestilent Lord
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Doomwheel Driver
I'd argue that the PCBs currently walk the border between broken and good, so I think they could survive the step-up rumor, depending on how it works... I had heard a rumor the 'stepping up' would be limited to two ranks, so if you kill enough you still might stop return attacks. Although ASF enemies will get to go before the PCB flail-strikes, so the Gas might lose some of its ASF-bane status a bit.
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Rakchew
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Hack 'n Slash!
First I've heard about this rule, but it seems silly to me.

If it's not broke, don't fix it....

This hurts countless units that are offense based but with 0 protection. Monks, Witch elves, etc etc.
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chieftainskritchskritch
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I can somewhat agree with this, as censers do gain their uber reputation by smacking the poop out of units before they can be struck back.

However, perhaps this is the rule that allows Rat Ogres to be taken as a viable choice?

With a relatively high toughness, multiple wounds, fear, lots of high Strength attacks and an additional "stomp" attack (whatever that turns out to be), they should be able to take a few hits from ASF and then lay a smack-down of their own in return. It will be interesting to see what happens.
You kids these days have it so easy, what with your Plague Furnaces and your Hellpit Abominations and your Bonebreaker Warlords. Back in MY day, all we had was Slaves and Clanrats!...and auto-hit Ratling Guns...and skirmishing Jezzails...and 2D6 Warp Lightning...and Lead From The Back...wait, what was my arguement again?
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Grey-Seer Diabis
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Clanrat
Send PCB's after cav if the rumors turn out to be true, cav dont get to strike in 2 ranks

Gas tests will still be before fighting starts hopefully

Rat ogres in will also get to fight in 2 ranks so 6 of them witth 2 packmasters will be cool


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Eshk
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Chieftain
Honestly, I don't think that its that bad of a thing if pcbs get a little nerfed. Right now they are pretty damn good and the whole idea behind 8th it seems is to make regiments more survivable and tougher. And the rumour also says that you only get to step up to the front meaning it will just be more important to get flank charges, which isn't bad since it just forces you to be more tactical with movement. So I think that that is a good change since overall it will mean people can't just run their OP units into the front of the mandatory core and decimate them.
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
depends how many step up. I regularly see 7 PCBs kill 10-15 guys. 21 attacks + fumes. Besides I am usually hitting the enemy in the flank with them. I leave the frontal assaults to the furnace or slave bait.
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RockJohnAxe
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Clanrat
???!!!!

So your saying if your guys kill there "front rank" they dont get any attack backs?



Man me and my friends have always been taking the casualties off the back for years.
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fantasypisces
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Clan Aungia
RockJohnAxe
May 17 2010, 05:28 AM
???!!!!

So your saying if your guys kill there "front rank" they dont get any attack backs?



Man me and my friends have always been taking the casualties off the back for years.

Yup!

That's how brets win. They charge in, try to kill the entire front rank so the enemy unit doesn't get any attacks back, then the knights win on combat rez, then hopefully overrun and kill. Otherwise they get stuck in, and knights suck when they are stuck in.

Granted, that's what PCB do too.... I have had 7 plague censors (well, six, one gassed himself) break a fully ranked up unit of 18 saurus by charging in and killing nine! (the saurus were six wide, so only two ranks, banner, outnumber... so they lost by 4!).

Good times. So yeah, step-up would hurt.
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CapAmr05
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The rumor I've heard regarding the step up rule is that it will only allow models in the second rank to have 1 attack back, with handweapon only. So while it will hurt the Censers a little bit it shouldn't hinder their overall effectiveness so much to tip the scales out of their favor.

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Typoko
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Hi!

Warseer has quite loads of rumours. I don't want to start copypasta festing here, but stepping up seems to work like Capn' is saying. These rumours are somewhat confirmed.

Tho, there is also a rumour that casualties are removed from back of the troop. Thus the front rank will hit with full force. This combined with the fact that spears can attack from 3 ranks rumour... yeah. Frontal attacks will be brutal to face.

There is also some sad rumours about skirmishin' units in general...

PS: I don't want to be linking stuff to other forums so I'll just say that you can find those rumours from warseer rumours section. Tho i can paste the link if ppl are too lazy to go there by themselves. :>
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Rusty Tincanne
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...you can still call me Rusty Tincanne if you want, though.

People are always too lazy. Post the link!

At any rate, PCB's were too powerful when they were more expensive in the 6th ed. This will force me to get flanks or charge archers and the like. It will be good for me. Right? :unsure:
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SkavenDan
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this is not a new rumour how bad this will affect PCBs is hard to say if it is true that is only with a hand weapon from the second rank and only a single attack then black guard are not going to slaughter you with a single S3 attack per model.

Is all down to how you use them. And they will always scare small units that don't have the durability for a long fight because they will just slaughter them.

Typoko if your going to go and advertise other sites you should link it lazy sod :P
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spino
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Chieftain
The problem is that PCBs do indeed lose some bite in 8th thanks to Initiative determining striking order in combat. Factor in the latest Step-Up rumors and suddenly our naked T4 clan Pestliens rats won't be quite as fearsome as they are now. Be prepared to lose a lot more PCBs & Plague Monks thanks to their curiously less than Skaven-like I3 instead of I4... :(

We could always pray the 8th ed army errata sheets boosts them to I4 but that's shamelessly wishful thinking.

The good news is our PCB gas tests still go before everything, ASF included. Since most ASF troops sport T3 we've got a 50/50 chance of taking out half their ASF troops in the front rank. In order to make the most out of our PCBs they must be strictly limited to flanking attacks when dealing with troops sporting I3 or better. No more wild charges into the front of elite units knowing we'll gas or smash the front rank to a pulp before they can strike back.

To help offset the pain there is also another rumor which says Frenzied troops receive an additional attack when charging... So our PCBs would get a whopping 4 STR 5 attacks on the charge! If that's true then Rat Ogres just got a lot more cost effective... :blink:
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SkavenDan
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Am not sure the frenzied +1 attack on the charge is going to be in addition to being frenzied it could replace the normal +1 attack that frenzie generates.

I think Rat Ogres are going to come out of this winners though with higher init than PCBs and a monster attack as well. I can see units of these popping up a lot now. Finally some much needed love for the rat ogre.
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