| Skaven FAQ Out; 2010 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 8th March 2010 - 03:47 PM (8,413 Views) | |
| FleshCollector | 11th March 2010 - 05:23 AM Post #121 |
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Some here are surly lawyers or would make damn good ones as the value of a comma placement is divined to completely twist the most simple and clear of written answers. As we know, Curse of the Horned Rat casualties are distributed as shooting. As we know by reading pg 74 of the BRB, characters of any unit strength less than 5 are completely immune "when in a unit that includes at least five rank and file models" as "any shots against the unit will hit ordinary troopers and not the character." After defining how those shooting hits are distributed when there are less than 5 RnF, we discover exactly what happens to a character model which is itself Unit Strength 5 or more and that the character may be targeted individually or "picked out as a target regardless of the rules just given." Either the unit or the character in this case may be shot. The FAQ answer is clear and consistent with what the BRB states and provides an orderly and concise response to that consistent affect: Answer" The casualties are distributed as hits from shooting. If the unit includes characters, just follow the normal rules for shooting hits against such units. " Now our lawyer rats are arguing that the next sentence provides an exception to the first two sentences of the answer when in fact it is a reminder of what is already stated in the BRB and is completely consistent: "However, if the characters in the unit are Unit Strength 5 or more, they are not affected by the spell at all and casualties will fall amongst other models in the unit (just imagine that the characters are not there). This clarification and reminder points out that there is indeed a difference between character models of less than US5 and those greater than US5 while explicitly stating that US5 characters are not affected IF the rat player wanted to target the US5 character as under the normal shooting rules the US5 character could be targeted while inside the unit. Simple, short and sweet; something we all complain about wanting but still can't recognize it when it happens. Finally, the last sentence clarifies what happens to those characters when the entire unit is destroyed: "If the unit is destroyed by the spell, the player controlling the characters must place them anywhere 1" away from the newly formed Clanrats, facing in any direction." Now we know what happens to the characters when their unit is destroyed. This FAQ answer was crafted to answer 3 questions and succeeded quite admirably. What this debate stems from is folks seeing what they want to see rather than what is while imagining that through a cunning emphasis on "however" with a well placed comma, we can change the meaning as intended and argue it in the court of public opinion. As one affected by the warpstone seeping from these walls, I cannot help but suspect a deliberate and lame attempt at misrepresenting GW's intent for their own advantage. |
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| Warlock Matik | 11th March 2010 - 10:53 AM Post #122 |
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(Z–>)90º – (E–N²W)90ºt = 1
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Oh my Horned Rat, it's happening again! Just with a different rule. Can't grey seers ever catch a break?
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| Mahtobedis | 11th March 2010 - 04:00 PM Post #123 |
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Warlord
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I think the intent, in the case of a unit with a character or champion, is that you remove it down to unit strength 5 and then start rolling for distribution, just like if you had just targeted the unit with a crap tone of shooting. |
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| QueekQueek | 11th March 2010 - 06:17 PM Post #124 |
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Grey Seer
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so in essence, this makes the spell slightly more powerful, as you don't even need to be able to wipe out the unit to kill a character. 20 models, 1 is a character. After 15 deaths, the 16th could potentially kill the character without wiping out the entire unit. MUTATE::: correction: in said scenario, you start rolling after 14 deaths, as now there are only 5 RnF and 1 character, if I'm not mistaken. |
| The best laid plans of mice-men often go astray... | |
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| CapAmr05 | 11th March 2010 - 06:22 PM Post #125 |
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Not when coupled with this FAQ. The character of US less than 5 will (almost always, depending on your opponent) be the last victim to fall to the spell before you lay down the clanrats. And for those of the 'characters are immune' persuasion, please note, resilient =/= immune --Cap |
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Lonewolf Grand Tournament April 28-30 The Beer Phase Podcast Clan Skrittar | |
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| Bobtailmaneater | 12th March 2010 - 03:56 PM Post #126 |
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Grey Seer
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YES! I am so psyched now to do a modelling conversion/sculpting project and build me one!
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| Bobtailmaneater | 12th March 2010 - 04:11 PM Post #127 |
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Grey Seer
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Is there a thread that really debates this? I would love to see some hard math-hammer type numbers making a comparison. I mean, 5 Str 5 attacks...and T5 W4...not to mention I FINALLY get to use a Rat Ogre in my army and not feel like I am sacrificing combat effectiveness for fluff! I know this isn't the thread for this, but I don't recall a serious discussion of the issue (especially since at the time I may have over looked it, thinking that the ROBB mount was going to cost me my LOS! roll). |
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| CapAmr05 | 12th March 2010 - 04:20 PM Post #128 |
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Right when the book first came out, but then it was based on the notions of LoS and US5, etc. I haven't seen one since the corrections/clarifications have been made, care to start one? --Cap |
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Lonewolf Grand Tournament April 28-30 The Beer Phase Podcast Clan Skrittar | |
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| Bobtailmaneater | 12th March 2010 - 04:25 PM Post #129 |
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Grey Seer
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I don't read it that way. The FAQ says that "any model (friend or foe) in base contact with one or more models fighting with a plague censer must take a toughness test." This means that a model fighting against the PCB has to test and the PCB himself has to test. But models fighting in the second rank are not in base contact with anyone fighting "with" a PCB. They are in base contact with someone fighting AGAINST a PCB. Therefore they do not have to take a test. ::Mutate::: Sorry - I see that this has already been adequately debated here and the consensus agrees with me. Sorry to "beat a dead horse"
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| Bobtailmaneater | 12th March 2010 - 04:26 PM Post #130 |
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Grey Seer
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Consider it done!
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| Kevlar | 12th March 2010 - 09:19 PM Post #131 |
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Doomwheel Driver
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Yep, how it has always been in every previous edition. The only "2nd rank" that has to test is the 2nd rank of censer bearers, which is why they are best fielded in small single rank units. And big surprise, friendly models wounded by gas count against you for CR, not towards you as some esteemed rules esquires were trying to litigate. |
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| IronShark | 12th March 2010 - 09:42 PM Post #132 |
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Warlord
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Actually, 2 editions ago, they dropped templates if I recall correctly. |
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No battle plan survives contact with Clan Skryre. -Lord Pox | |
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| Kevlar | 12th March 2010 - 10:49 PM Post #133 |
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Doomwheel Driver
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Nah that was the globadiers. The cencers I'm pretty sure work like they always did. Except that hatred previously gave them all their leadership tests on an unmodified 10. Oh they did get -2 to be shot at due to the gas cloud and the skirmish rule. Miss that. |
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| IronShark | 13th March 2010 - 03:06 AM Post #134 |
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Warlord
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Looking in my old book, the PCB's hit everyone within 1", so they'd hit 2 ranks in their original incarnation. But those were also the days of blast template PWGs, Verminlord with S8, T7, etc... |
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No battle plan survives contact with Clan Skryre. -Lord Pox | |
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| The MexiMan | 15th March 2010 - 02:36 AM Post #135 |
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Stormvermin
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Got a question, The FAQ stated that the Doomwhell does not need LOS to charge a unit, so does that mean that I don't need to declare a charge and I just decide after I roll if I want to charge something or just move normally. |
| THE REAL MexiMan | |
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