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Skaven FAQ Out; 2010
Topic Started: 8th March 2010 - 03:47 PM (8,414 Views)
Sammy the Squid
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Back to retirement!

Well, Im satisfied now :)

Though the lack of clarity on Rat Ogre/packmaster numbers is a shame... Rest of it is all first class. Finally we have a proper army book!! :D

- Sammy
"If the squidman can't do it, no one can!!"

Wins/Losses/Draws

Skaven Clan Rattenkrieg - 108/58/20
Dark Elves - 44/14/8
Hochland Empire - 33/14/4
Malkavian Vampires - 23/22/4
Beastmen - 50/25/2

Have not completed a Painting Vow since July 07!!
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hakoMike
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More grey every day.
CapAmr05
Mar 8 2010, 02:25 PM
Quote:
 
PCB gas vs monstrous mounts answer is ridiculous.

Ridiculous yes, but it follows the precedent for characteristic tests on multipart models to a 'T'.

:lol: It's funny because 'T' means toughness! :lol:

Okay, I'm pretty happy with the faq overall, but I would have liked to have seen the following explicitly addressed:

  • Can plague priests take warpstone tokens?
  • How exactly does verminous scurrying work?
  • Does a Censer count as a "magic weapon" the same way the WEW does?

I know additional printings of the army book get the errata included, but I sorely wish GW would put the FAQ in there as well. I'd also suggest that they stop using the word "suggest" in their FAQ answers. Make a ruling and dictate its authority.
So old. So so old.
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CapAmr05
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Quote:
 
It's funny because 'T' means toughness!


Lol, I punned and didn't even know it! :D

--Cap
Lonewolf Grand Tournament April 28-30

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Clan Skrittar
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Dathedi


IronShark
Mar 8 2010, 11:35 AM
One big surprise is the US3(4) Rat Ogre bonebreaker. That's a significant and unexpected boost. Look Out Sir and can't be picked out? US3 Warlitter also nice, no killing blow (KB only works on US2 and less).

Killing blow works, its a mount, so you can kb the char riding atop a warlitter or bonebreaker regardless of the us of the combined unit.
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CapAmr05
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pg. 95

Third paragraph; paraphrased

'Killing blow works against models US2 or less. <next sentence> Killing Blow works against chars mounted on chariots and on monsters as long as the rider(s) are us <2.'


Playing Devil's Advocate;
The weird part is it covers chariots and monsters, but a Litter is neither.... and makes the Warlord model US4 (although being a rider he's US1). The BB hints at being a monster and follows MM rules. Granted neither of these mount options are traditional.

--Cap
Lonewolf Grand Tournament April 28-30

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Halceon
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Theoretical warp-physicist
Censers are fixed. I am now a happyrat.
-Warpfire breather and propagandist Halceon
Torquemada
 
Wherever Halceon is, i'm sure he's looking down on us right now. No, he's not dead, mind you, he's just very condescending.


The exploits of Clan Aiza
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The MexiMan
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Stormvermin
CapAmr05
Mar 9 2010, 11:48 AM
pg. 95

Third paragraph; paraphrased

'Killing blow works against models US2 or less. <next sentence> Killing Blow works against chars mounted on chariots and on monsters as long as the rider(s) are us <2.'


Playing Devil's Advocate;
The weird part is it covers chariots and monsters, but a Litter is neither.... and makes the Warlord model US4 (although being a rider he's US1). The BB hints at being a monster and follows MM rules. Granted neither of these mount options are traditional.

--Cap

The way I see it is that a War-litter mounted lord, being US4, would be immune to KB because the litter does not have its own wounds and has written in the "Borne Litter" rule that it is treated as a single model. The BB mounted lord would not be immune however, since its rule state that it follows the rules for a monstrous mount meaning that each the rider and mount can be killed separately.
THE REAL MexiMan
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Eshk
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Chieftain
QueekQueek
Mar 9 2010, 07:01 AM
After my initial excitement, I realized I still don't know how many Packmasters I can take with my Rat Ogres :/


As for the dreaded 13th:

I'm pretty sure everyone's making this way too hard; I'm pretty sure Characters and Champions CAN be affected by shooting; they're just the last models in the unit to be affected (which means, as it almost always plays out, the character and/or champions aren't affected, as there are generally not enough hits to affect them).

I KNOW I've done this method in 40k, and believe it also applies to WHFB:

You put the successful hits on the unit, one to a model, until every RnF has at least one hit. Then, you put a hit on the command, one a piece. Then, you put a hit on the character(s), one per model. Should you have any more hits, you start over, doing the same thing over again: 1 per model of RnF, then to command, then to characters.

So at 6 RnF, 3 command, 1 Character (10 models total), 6 or less hits would not affect characters or command. 9 or less hits would not affect characters. 10-19 hits would still only affect the character once. 20 hits would hit the character twice.

That's actually not how it works in fantasy though. In the rulebook, it states that if a character is in a unit of US5+, he can't be hit by shooting as it is all done to the unit. But the problem is that it doesn't mention if he takes hits if the entire unit gets wiped out. Since it says he is immune to shooting in a unit and doesn't mention otherwise, I think we have to assume that if a character is in a unit of 10 RnF and they suffer 13 wounds, they all die and the character is still left standing there.

Since that is how it works for shooting and the FAQ says the 13th spell works like shooting, it would follow that characters of any US are immune to the effects.
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SiliconSicilian
Grey Seer
Morgoth
Mar 9 2010, 02:13 AM
A bit of wormwood in the cup. (Danish saying. No idea whether it is used elsewhere)
Snikch still doesn't have poisoned throwing stars <_<

Did the FAQ not say that Clan Eshin all have Poisoned Close and Ranged attacks?
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Pestilent Lord
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SiliconSicilian
Mar 9 2010, 06:04 PM
Morgoth
Mar 9 2010, 02:13 AM
A bit of wormwood in the cup. (Danish saying. No idea whether it is used elsewhere)
Snikch still doesn't have poisoned throwing stars  <_<

Did the FAQ not say that Clan Eshin all have Poisoned Close and Ranged attacks?

Not quite. It just said that the Assassin's poison is both hand weapons and stars, and that the Gutter Runner upgrade is good for any of their attacks.
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Kevlar
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Eshk
Mar 9 2010, 05:23 PM

That's actually not how it works in fantasy though. In the rulebook, it states that if a character is in a unit of US5+, he can't be hit by shooting as it is all done to the unit. But the problem is that it doesn't mention if he takes hits if the entire unit gets wiped out. Since it says he is immune to shooting in a unit and doesn't mention otherwise, I think we have to assume that if a character is in a unit of 10 RnF and they suffer 13 wounds, they all die and the character is still left standing there.

Since that is how it works for shooting and the FAQ says the 13th spell works like shooting, it would follow that characters of any US are immune to the effects.

Are you sure? I thought after the 8th wound you would start randomizing the wounds between the character and the unit.
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
Pestilent Lord
Mar 9 2010, 06:31 PM
SiliconSicilian
Mar 9 2010, 06:04 PM
Morgoth
Mar 9 2010, 02:13 AM
A bit of wormwood in the cup. (Danish saying. No idea whether it is used elsewhere)
Snikch still doesn't have poisoned throwing stars  <_<

Did the FAQ not say that Clan Eshin all have Poisoned Close and Ranged attacks?

Not quite. It just said that the Assassin's poison is both hand weapons and stars, and that the Gutter Runner upgrade is good for any of their attacks.

Well he is a hero level assassin.
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eudaimon
Clanrat
Kevlar
Mar 9 2010, 06:41 PM
Eshk
Mar 9 2010, 05:23 PM

That's actually not how it works in fantasy though. In the rulebook, it states that if a character is in a unit of US5+, he can't be hit by shooting as it is all done to the unit. But the problem is that it doesn't mention if he takes hits if the entire unit gets wiped out. Since it says he is immune to shooting in a unit and doesn't mention otherwise, I think we have to assume that if a character is in a unit of 10 RnF and they suffer 13 wounds, they all die and the character is still left standing there.

Since that is how it works for shooting and the FAQ says the 13th spell works like shooting, it would follow that characters of any US are immune to the effects.

Are you sure? I thought after the 8th wound you would start randomizing the wounds between the character and the unit.

Esk is right with what he says about shooting, as long as there are 5 RnF, characters are safe from shooting.

However, i disagree, for reasons given earlier, about characters in a unit subject to the 13th (though I appreciate both points of view and am willing to be moved on the matter).

There are 2 effects of the 13th, to cause casulaties (if you do not kill enough) and to remove the unit and replace with clanrats (if you do kill enough). As soon as you roll equal to or above the number of models in the unit, including characters, the causing casualties ceases to apply (and thus the allocated as shooting ceases to apply) and the unit is removed and turned to clanrats, characters and all.

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underking calner
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finally, good read though!!!
when cooking halflings, i advise beginning on a low temperature for a long time, this way you seal in the juices!!!
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QueekQueek
Grey Seer
eudaimon
Mar 10 2010, 02:28 AM
Kevlar
Mar 9 2010, 06:41 PM
Eshk
Mar 9 2010, 05:23 PM

That's actually not how it works in fantasy though. In the rulebook, it states that if a character is in a unit of US5+, he can't be hit by shooting as it is all done to the unit. But the problem is that it doesn't mention if he takes hits if the entire unit gets wiped out. Since it says he is immune to shooting in a unit and doesn't mention otherwise, I think we have to assume that if a character is in a unit of 10 RnF and they suffer 13 wounds, they all die and the character is still left standing there.

Since that is how it works for shooting and the FAQ says the 13th spell works like shooting, it would follow that characters of any US are immune to the effects.

Are you sure? I thought after the 8th wound you would start randomizing the wounds between the character and the unit.

Esk is right with what he says about shooting, as long as there are 5 RnF, characters are safe from shooting.

However, i disagree, for reasons given earlier, about characters in a unit subject to the 13th (though I appreciate both points of view and am willing to be moved on the matter).

There are 2 effects of the 13th, to cause casulaties (if you do not kill enough) and to remove the unit and replace with clanrats (if you do kill enough). As soon as you roll equal to or above the number of models in the unit, including characters, the causing casualties ceases to apply (and thus the allocated as shooting ceases to apply) and the unit is removed and turned to clanrats, characters and all.

I agree.

As we've stated, the FAQ shows that RAI holds relevance.

This shouldn't change simply because the FAQ was also written badly.

I think the FAQ makes it pretty clear that what they intend is that only US5 characters survive. Otherwise, I think they would have addressed how a US1 character is either ejected or ruins the whole transformation. It just doesn't feel right that, potentially, having a unit champion prevents the spell from going off successfully.


MUTATE:::
Quote:
 
Are you sure?  I thought after the 8th wound you would start randomizing the wounds between the character and the unit.


Can you point to where the backing is for this in the rulebook?
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