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Skaven FAQ Out; 2010
Topic Started: 8th March 2010 - 03:47 PM (8,415 Views)
CapAmr05
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FYI, since 7th dropped I've been playing the Storm Banner as one use only (it just seemed too obvious given its points, description and previous rules), and after numerous games it is still present in my list. Trust me, it's still one of the two or three (depending on your viewpoint) top viable banners available to us.

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esco thomson
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I too completely agree with the FAQ, and especially the "one-use only erratas"...you still have the chance of keeping it going for the whole game, and even if not, one well placed activation is well worth fifty points in my book.
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chieftainskritchskritch
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Ok, sorry to bring this chesnut back again, but ive been pondering on it.

People have been saying that a bonebreaker warlord does indeed get LoS when deployed in a unit. However, isnt the bonebreaker a Monstrous Mount? Doesnt this negate the LoS the warlord would likely recieve? I thought MMs could be targeted regardless.....?
You kids these days have it so easy, what with your Plague Furnaces and your Hellpit Abominations and your Bonebreaker Warlords. Back in MY day, all we had was Slaves and Clanrats!...and auto-hit Ratling Guns...and skirmishing Jezzails...and 2D6 Warp Lightning...and Lead From The Back...wait, what was my arguement again?
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FurryFiend
Chieftain
I am surprised no one mentioned the FAQ of adding other Characters to a Bell/Furnace unit. I know this was a huge argument on these forums as well.

But yes good work on the FAQ GW. Lots of stuff I was expecting and some I wasn't sure of. Still sad of the Warpstone token. Though I would have liked to see a once per magic phase at least. But oh well.
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Pestilent Lord
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Doomwheel Driver
chieftainskritchskritch
Mar 8 2010, 10:32 PM
Ok, sorry to bring this chesnut back again, but ive been pondering on it.

People have been saying that a bonebreaker warlord does indeed get LoS when deployed in a unit. However, isnt the bonebreaker a Monstrous Mount? Doesnt this negate the LoS the warlord would likely recieve? I thought MMs could be targeted regardless.....?

Nope. Most Monstrous Mounts can be picked out of units by virtue of being US 5 with their rider, or because they are large targets. If you have a Monstrous Mount with a combined US 4 or lower and they're in a unit of 5+ RnF models they're perfectly safe.
[size0]barring combat, failed Look out Sirs, failed leadership tests, spells that can pick models out of units
Okay, relatively safe. :P
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scrivener
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FurryFiend
Mar 9 2010, 03:33 AM
I am surprised no one mentioned the FAQ of adding other Characters to a Bell/Furnace unit. I know this was a huge argument on these forums as well.

I think I'm quite okay with their ruling on that, it's good and seems faultless. Characters can't pop in and out whenever they want, which respects the joining Unbreakable rule. Characters can be deployed in it, which respects the concept that the unit isn't unbreakable until it is deployed with the furnace/bell (so the same should apply to characters). Characters can't leave the unit, which respects the rule that the pusher unit can't either. I didn't like the adepticon and dogcon FAQs on it, which were either extremes, GW did a good balance on it.
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Mahtobedis
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Mar 8 2010, 09:03 PM
This is inaccurate. If you cause more wounds on a unit than there are rank and file models the damage will carry over to kill the champion. The only exception I know of is the champion could be involved in a challenge, in which case the champ is saved from wound-carry over.

MUTATE: not that the champ in a challenge issue matters for purposes of this spell.


Actually you can't even cast the spell on a unit with a champion in a challenge because that would mean they are in close combat. Curse of the Horned Rat does have LOS restrictions; can't see into combat.
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IronShark
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Quote:
 
Curse of the Horned Rat does have LOS restrictions; can't see into combat.


Line of Sight has nothing to do with being able so cast into combat; you can see units in combat just fine (presuming nothing is blocking LOS). However, there is a specific rule that says you can't cast spells into close combat unless the spell specifies otherwise, or the spell is cast solely on the caster himself.

That's why spells like Skitterleap and Death Frenzy have the bit about "even if in close combat" in them.
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Sleboda
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I'm seeing a few posts here I want to question/seek clarity on.

First is that a champion in a unit can die from excessive shooting. I think that may be right, but I can't find it, while I can find the part that says in shooting treat champs like characters, which would seem to help against the 13th spell.

The second is that characters die with units if you roll high enough on the 13th spell. This one, sadly (I want to kill them too!), I just can't see given the FAQ. According to the FAQ, if the unit has more than 5 RnF models, the character cannot die since you allocate the deaths as shooting hits and with shooting at a unit of more than 5 RnF plus chr, the chr is immune.
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Pestilent Lord
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Mahtobedis
Mar 8 2010, 11:04 PM
Pestilent Lord
Mar 8 2010, 09:03 PM
This is inaccurate. If you cause more wounds on a unit than there are rank and file models the damage will carry over to kill the champion. The only exception I know of is the champion could be involved in a challenge, in which case the champ is saved from wound-carry over.

MUTATE: not that the champ in a challenge issue matters for purposes of this spell.


Actually you can't even cast the spell on a unit with a champion in a challenge because that would mean they are in close combat. Curse of the Horned Rat does have LOS restrictions; can't see into combat.

hence why I said the challenge didn't matter for this spell. ;)

Quote:
 
First is that a champion in a unit can die from excessive shooting. I think that may be right, but I can't find it, while I can find the part that says in shooting treat champs like characters, which would seem to help against the 13th spell.

Page 81, right hand column they point out that if a unit takes enough wounds to kill every single model in the unit the champion will die too.
MUTATE: probably should point out that the pg 81 references the BRB, not the Skaven book.
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deathmaster riddick
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yeah, storm banner is still useful. i was motivated by my gun line friends. storm banner actually made them play the game. i still include it in almost all my lists.

it's mainly the warpstone tokens. i was thinking they'd do an errata and turn it into D3 tokens. that seemed fair. average of 7.5 points per token. so slightly cheaper than power stone, and it's random, so it's skaven.

mutate- apparently there was another whole page of comments in the 3 hours since i posted.
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eudaimon
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Sleboda
Mar 8 2010, 11:15 PM
I'm seeing a few posts here I want to question/seek clarity on.

First is that a champion in a unit can die from excessive shooting. I think that may be right, but I can't find it, while I can find the part that says in shooting treat champs like characters, which would seem to help against the 13th spell.

The second is that characters die with units if you roll high enough on the 13th spell. This one, sadly (I want to kill them too!), I just can't see given the FAQ. According to the FAQ, if the unit has more than 5 RnF models, the character cannot die since you allocate the deaths as shooting hits and with shooting at a unit of more than 5 RnF plus chr, the chr is immune.

As I see it, the spell has two effects, in much the same way as Gateway. The first is to cause casualties if you roll too low, the second is to remove the unit and replace with clanrats, if you roll high enough.

Suppose the unit has 11 RnF, 1 champ and 1 character.

1. If you roll low (11 or lower) then you will cause casualties. Distribute these casualites like shooting (i.e. the character is safe, so is any champ)

2. If you roll 12 then you will cause casualities on the unit distributed like shooting and the unit will be removed and replaced with clanrats, with the character being ejected 1"

3. If you roll high enough, 13 or more, then you DO NOT CAUSE CASUALTIES. Instead, the second effect of the spell takes place, you remove the unit and replace with clanrats. As you do not cause casualties, you cannot distribute them like shooting, so the character must also die with his unit.

That is the most obvious reading to me - reading it any other way would suggest that there is no difference between the causing casualities part (i.e. like any other spell) and the secondary effect of removing the unit and replacing with clanrats. Its very similar to Gateway, having a big unit does not protect you if the unit is removed as a whole.

Please note that the FAQ does NOT say that characters are immune, only that characters of US5 or more are immune. If characters were generally immune, there would be no need for the US5 bit, as by default any US character, US1, US2, US3, US10 etc would be immune.

Secondly, it inadvertantly answered the question about characters on mounts in the unit, as it says that such units CAN be targetted. Hurrah for the Skaven, too bad for my High Elf characters that are about to get mutated.
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Morgoth
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Viskis
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Thank the Horned Rat for that (long) FAQ!

Its interesting to see the answers to the hotly debated questions we have been having for weeks.
Notable ones:
- doom-flayers impact hits, S4 -2, makes sense
- multiple death globes, WAW's
- US3 Bonebreaker!

I also thought is was quite funny how many of those FAQ's had the word "Doomwheel" in them. :lol:

Can a Doomwheel...?
If a Doomwheel...?
What's a Doomwheel...?

Anyway, i'm happy with it and it cleared up so much.
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QueekQueek
Grey Seer
After my initial excitement, I realized I still don't know how many Packmasters I can take with my Rat Ogres :/


As for the dreaded 13th:

I'm pretty sure everyone's making this way too hard; I'm pretty sure Characters and Champions CAN be affected by shooting; they're just the last models in the unit to be affected (which means, as it almost always plays out, the character and/or champions aren't affected, as there are generally not enough hits to affect them).

I KNOW I've done this method in 40k, and believe it also applies to WHFB:

You put the successful hits on the unit, one to a model, until every RnF has at least one hit. Then, you put a hit on the command, one a piece. Then, you put a hit on the character(s), one per model. Should you have any more hits, you start over, doing the same thing over again: 1 per model of RnF, then to command, then to characters.

So at 6 RnF, 3 command, 1 Character (10 models total), 6 or less hits would not affect characters or command. 9 or less hits would not affect characters. 10-19 hits would still only affect the character once. 20 hits would hit the character twice.
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