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2k Zero comp list, any ideas??
Topic Started: 3rd March 2010 - 12:49 AM (703 Views)
scrivener
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*toot*

Think of it this way: which man will chop wood faster? The man with one axe or the man with two axes?


Answer: the man who is better at chopping wood.

More axes doesn't equal better chopping. Sure, if I swing an axe in each hand I'll hit the wood twice as often (in theory), but for me at least it'll be clumsy and prone to ending with an axe through the foot. Unless you specialise at dual axe-wielding. Far more sensible to hold one axe in both hands. Same with an army.
hannanibal
 
*Angry mob assembles*

"WHAT DO WE WANT!!??"
"A THINNISH, WATERY PAINT WITH A GREENER TINGE THAN AGRAX EARTHSHADE!!"
"WHEN DO WE WANT IT!?"
"QUITE SOON PLEASE AS MY LAST POT IS RUNNING OUT!"
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Bong-Ratz
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i would drop some of the hard hitting units, but that is getting away from the original idea of this list. I want it to smash your face in with everything it has and thats why im going with all super smashy units :KA-BOOM:
"Please be so kind to charge my slaves with your Chosen Knights, good sir, you have no idea how much feeding them costs."
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deathmaster riddick
I Am The Monster
well, if you really, truly, absolutely want to go with this list. then here is how i would do it. not that i am condoning this list, i don't think it's effective, i don't think it's sportsmanlike, and it's certainly not fluffy. however if you're going to do it, then you had better do it right.

an adaptation from your list to accomodate for it's too many special choices and too high points value

grey seer on screaming bell 30 clanrats with standard.
plague priest lvl 2 with plague furnace and 30 monks with standard.
plague priest lvl 2 with plague furnace and 30 monks with standard.
6 censor bearers
6 censor bearers
21 slaves
21 slaves
21 slaves
21 slaves

put a storm banner with one of the plague monks.

explanation-

the 2 hell pits are 500 points together. you have to drop them to fit this into 2000 points. and i'm guessing the plague priests and furnaces were more integral to your plan.

the slaves are their to put on the peripherals of your furnaces so they don't charge everything. the censor bearers and extra tower were dropped because again, too many points, and too many special units. and so you have the minimum core.

the towers are beefed up because 20 rats aren't hard to kill. a shooting turn or two and they're gone. the storm banner only goes so far.

doomflayers are gone for the usual reason, and they really don't cause that much damage.

now that i have given you the list i will tell you 3 ways this list can be torn apart.

first- any list that has cannons. those nice large bells will be blown apart even with the storm banner.

second- fast armies, wood elves, cavalry heavy armies, beastmen, skaven, skink heavy lizardmen. will run your 4 frenzied units around the table the whole game. they then can flank your slaves, and shoot your screaming bell at their leisure.

third- any daemon list. okay, they're daemons. but a bloodthirster flying in and smashing your bells(S7 attacks), will ruin your day. so will a flying circus, or a regenerating nurgle army.

so this will be effective against ogres, maybe beastmen, maybe vampire counts. any other balanced list will probably shred this.
The best way to configure an army is to go play demons.-Nevamore Posted on Nov 6 2009, 04:02 PM

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scrivener
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*toot*

Bong-Ratz
Mar 5 2010, 05:47 PM
i would drop some of the hard hitting units, but that is getting away from the original idea of this list. I want it to smash your face in with everything it has and thats why im going with all super smashy units :KA-BOOM:

You can do that (though I'd personally have recommended playing daemons), but the biggest reason right now is that it will not fit into 2k pts:

Two abominations is around 500 pts.

A complete furnace set is around 450 pts, and that's for a level 1 priest.

A complete seer & bell set, including a unit to push it, is over 500 pts.

PCBs are optimal at 6 in a unit: that's almost 100 pts.

For one bell block, 2 furnace blocks, 2 abominations and 2 PCB units, you're already over your point limit. And we still haven't gotten the required minimum number of core units. You could field Skrolk to make your monks count as core, but he's the same price as an entire furnace block.

You could try one bell block, one furnace block, 2 aboms (if you really want them), 2 PCB units. Then you can fit in another clanrat unit and give both clanrat units doomflayers, and 1 or 2 slave units or a stormbanner to make up minimum core. That should fit 2k pts.

But whatever Riddick said is still going to apply. Our super-smashy units are either glass cannons and/or unreliable. I wouldn't centre my gameplan around them.
hannanibal
 
*Angry mob assembles*

"WHAT DO WE WANT!!??"
"A THINNISH, WATERY PAINT WITH A GREENER TINGE THAN AGRAX EARTHSHADE!!"
"WHEN DO WE WANT IT!?"
"QUITE SOON PLEASE AS MY LAST POT IS RUNNING OUT!"
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deathmaster riddick
I Am The Monster
yeah, daemons really sound like the army for you. not to be a race traitor(and for the record i hate daemons), but here's what you can fit in a 2K daemons list.

a flying terror monster with 2D6+4 S7 attacks with hatred. a hero that has hatred, S6(or so) and killing blow that works on 5+ and affects all living units regardless of size. cavalry that have hatred and 2 S5 attacks with high weapon skill(4X5 in 2K). your whole army is immune to psych and has a 5+ ward save. skirmishing, multi-wound, high ballistic skill, D6 shots, high toughness archers(12 in 2K). along with core fliers, and still have a decent magic phase.(did i mention most of the units i mentiond have MR2 or higher?)

see my signature :P . daemons are all about marching forward and smashing you with more power than should be possible. they have a lord who makes everything hate everything! they can fly, almost everything in their list has obscenely high weapon skill. they can have regenerating death stars with high toughness. lvl 4 wizards with ten wounds, high toughness, and regeneration. magic armies that have 20+ power dice. i can go on and on.

my brother plays daemons and i can tell you first hand, absolutely unholy. and it sounds like you have a khorne mentality. see if this fits the mentality for your army, ahem.

"we will kill the enemy! then we'll kill our allies! then we'll kill each other! then we'll kill the people we just killed in an eternal battle in another dimension! none of this cowardly magic or shooting! charge right in and cut their heads off with more ferocity then they can possibly withstand!"

still not interested, here's what will be leading your army forward.Posted Image
The best way to configure an army is to go play demons.-Nevamore Posted on Nov 6 2009, 04:02 PM

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Heinrich The Lichemaster


deathmaster riddick
Mar 5 2010, 11:01 PM
a flying terror monster with 2D6+4 S7 attacks with hatred.

a hero that has hatred, S6(or so) and killing blow that works on 5+ and affects all living units regardless of size.

did i mention most of the units i mentiond have MR2 or higher?

lvl 4 wizards with ten wounds, high toughness, and regeneration.

Just like to point out a few things about daemons being a recent daemon player aswell as skaven, high elves and lizardmen.

that lord(bloodthirster) has 105pts of items there so thats not viable

the hero only has killing blow on any size models on a 5+ in a challenege so things like stegadons can destroy him....as i decided to dice it up against one for some fun lol

actually its only khorne things that have MR and its 1 for bloodletters, 3 for flesh hounds and 2 for BT

altho u can have a lvl4 great unclean one, hes totally not worth it, take a BT of lord of change over him anyday

but you CAN field a balanced list as i do and still have friends to replay matches with

P.S sorry to go off topic but i dislike it when people bash on armies, any army can be balanced if made so, its not the armies that are overpowered as such its how you make them to be
end of rant
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Lord Pox
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Plague Priest
Heinrich The Lichemaster
Mar 6 2010, 05:54 PM
P.S sorry to go off topic but i dislike it when people bash on armies, any army can be balanced if made so, its not the armies that are overpowered as such its how you make them to be
end of rant

I guess the point is not that daemon armies are always 'broken' - some can be themed, balanced, even fluffy as you say - just that daemons are the army that it is easiest to produce an extremely powerful, very hard to beat, and rather simple (tactically speaking) to play, force with.
I have seen some fun/themed and interesting daemon armies, but tourney lists often seem to (sadly) go for the lowest common denominator armies, which in the present environment is killy-daemons.
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deathmaster riddick
I Am The Monster
Heinrich The Lichemaster
Mar 6 2010, 11:54 AM
deathmaster riddick
Mar 5 2010, 11:01 PM
a flying terror monster with 2D6+4 S7 attacks with hatred.

a hero that has hatred, S6(or so) and killing blow that works on 5+ and affects all living units regardless of size.

did i mention most of the units i mentiond have MR2 or higher?

lvl 4 wizards with ten wounds, high toughness, and regeneration.

Just like to point out a few things about daemons being a recent daemon player aswell as skaven, high elves and lizardmen.

that lord(bloodthirster) has 105pts of items there so thats not viable

the hero only has killing blow on any size models on a 5+ in a challenege so things like stegadons can destroy him....as i decided to dice it up against one for some fun lol

actually its only khorne things that have MR and its 1 for bloodletters, 3 for flesh hounds and 2 for BT

altho u can have a lvl4 great unclean one, hes totally not worth it, take a BT of lord of change over him anyday

but you CAN field a balanced list as i do and still have friends to replay matches with

P.S sorry to go off topic but i dislike it when people bash on armies, any army can be balanced if made so, its not the armies that are overpowered as such its how you make them to be
end of rant

holding the book in front of me-

page 92 2D6+2(not four, sorry) attacks.

page 93 re-roll hits.

total value is 80 points, so you can also purchase MR 3 or a 3+ armor save to go with that.

you're right it only affects challenges. but he's still going to kill any character he comes across.

only khorne but the two most smash units i mentioned(Flesh hounds and bloodthirster), can have MR 3.

i'll concede the point about the great unclean one. but you are comparing him to a bloodthirster, which is the common example given for a broken unit.

i was actually recommending an army, not bashing one. i don't like daemons but they really sound like the perfect army for this guy. they have some of the best smash units in the game(and the stated reason for this army is smashing things), and they're usually better protected than ours. they will also cross the battefield much quicker than skaven. the fluff also supports the playing style of bong-ratz. he sounds like he wants to smash things and not much else. is that not an ideal khorne mentality?

and i think this is perfectly on topic. the idea is that it's questionable if the army list desired by bong-ratz is possible with skaven. however, khorne can make this list happen without even trying.

i know usually every sentence spoken about them contains expletives, but in this instance they may be a viable option for an aspiring player.

and if you're new, daemons are cheaper to buy, and the lower model count means you can get them on the table quicker(seriously bong, take a look).
The best way to configure an army is to go play demons.-Nevamore Posted on Nov 6 2009, 04:02 PM

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Bong-Ratz
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After thumbing through the dex i am actually going to try out your advice and play a game or two with khorne daemons and see how it goes. I really like the idea of here i come and if you dont stop me fast im going to punch you in the face with my deamon fist and you will die :) so thank you for the advice, and i promise i will not mix marks so i dont become "that guy"
"Please be so kind to charge my slaves with your Chosen Knights, good sir, you have no idea how much feeding them costs."
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deathmaster riddick
I Am The Monster
good idea! i knew you sounded like the khorne type to me.

just try and stay with khorne only daemons and you'll avoid a lot of the hype. armies that have one type of daemon are very fluffy and usually decently friendly.
The best way to configure an army is to go play demons.-Nevamore Posted on Nov 6 2009, 04:02 PM

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