| Interested in Skaven; Looking for some advice | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 2nd January 2010 - 05:05 AM (1,011 Views) | |
| Joasht | 2nd January 2010 - 05:05 AM Post #1 |
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Clanrat
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I already posted this on the LO, but that was before I found this forum; oddly enough it seems I signed up in this forums God-knows-when, since I already had an account o_o I've always been somewhat interested in skaven since back in 4th ed because of my slight fascination with rodents. I'm considering starting a skaven army to take advantage of a sale at a shop I buy from, but I need advice from you guys regarding whats good and whats not. I need to pick something thats fairly competitive as people in my area play with competitive lists.... That said, I'm hoping you guys could help me with a 1,000 point list, and ways to expand it to 1,500 and 2,000 points. Model-wise I like the Stormvermin and Doomwheel a lot, and I've always been fascinated with the ninja rats, although it seems they didn't get updated models ![]() Thanks! |
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| Ratastrophe | 2nd January 2010 - 05:21 AM Post #2 |
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Clanrat
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Well to start off I'd reccomend sneaking around the forums a bit. Checking out what people are talking about gives a really good feel for what works, be it a unit combo or crafty tactic. As for your favorite units, stormvermin are indeed awesome models and very fluffy. Kinda the closest a skaven can come to being a BA, not including charecters. However it's debatable whether or not they are worth the extra points over just taking more clanrats or slaves. They are sort of just OK. As for your ninja rats, assassins are still kind of just ok, mostly for march blocking, creature killing with warpstone stars, or hunting artillery. They cost a bunch of points for this however. Gutter runners do about the same things (minus creature hunting unless you are a god with your poisoned attack rolls) and do some fun things with sneaky infiltrators. Night runners are rank and file now which sucks and they are mostly only taken with the warpgrinder for tunnling. HOWEVER the doomwheel is AWESOME and in a 1k armylist won't have much to be afraid of. They are so good a lot of people call them broken and with support smash through most infantry and also fry monsters very easily with lightning. |
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| Bibamus | 2nd January 2010 - 06:27 AM Post #3 |
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Grey Seer
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check this thread: http://underempire.net/index.php?showtopic=31047 same question as yours basically, but allready answered
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It would be ugly to watch people poking sticks at a caged rat. It is uglier still to watch rats poking sticks at a caged person. 13th spell casts: 2 Kills: 32 Grave Guard,1 Vampire Lord | |
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| Joasht | 2nd January 2010 - 10:22 AM Post #4 |
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Clanrat
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Yeah thanks for the link, i actually went through it earlier today but its kinda like "just buy two battleforces" =/ What are the aspects of the skaven army that makes them scary? Their magic? Hordes of rodents? Some weapon or warengine? Thanks!! |
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| Theskit Neek | 2nd January 2010 - 10:33 AM Post #5 |
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Clanrat
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I think for most it's the combination. Since the new book we can compete magically and/or have warmachines that pack a punch and still field a sizeable army. Versus armies that like their warmachines gutter runners are great, you should look on ebay, I bought about 12-14 for 13,5 euro's a while back. And yes, the doomwheel, I don't have it myself since I'm only playing in a campaign right now but I've seen it in action and it is awesome. When it doesn't fry your own units and/or blowup. Well even then it's still awesome. |
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Neek! Warlord Thraskitar Squelch'es current campaign trophy rack: 2 wraiths & a banshee, 5 tombguard, 3 Marauders, 5 Chaos Warriors. It's not worth doing something unless you were doing something that someone, somewere, would much rather you weren't doing.
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| Joasht | 2nd January 2010 - 11:31 AM Post #6 |
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Clanrat
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sorry it seems i reposted my earlier reply, hit the wrong button on my phone lol....
[size0](no worries. I killed the reply for you. ~M) Anyway i bought a doomwheel from my lgs, as i figured i love the model enough to own it regardless of whether or not i eventually complete the army =P Quick question and sorry that its a liittle off topic; how do you paint wood? thanks! |
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| Shinobi_8745 | 2nd January 2010 - 02:19 PM Post #7 |
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Stormvermin
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For painting wood (or anything on the doomwheel at all) I'd reccomend following this. http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/...000022a&start=2 |
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| Bibamus | 2nd January 2010 - 02:47 PM Post #8 |
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Grey Seer
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what makes skaven what they are: randomness! you're either lucky or unlucky. this army depends more on dice than any other army (maybe O&G top it but.. meh). i recently started playing lizardmen and things happening as i plan them is so boring when it doesn't depend on teh artillery dice
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It would be ugly to watch people poking sticks at a caged rat. It is uglier still to watch rats poking sticks at a caged person. 13th spell casts: 2 Kills: 32 Grave Guard,1 Vampire Lord | |
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| Joasht | 2nd January 2010 - 03:26 PM Post #9 |
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Clanrat
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Speaking of O&G, my cousin plays O&G......how does Skaven fare against them? They both seem kinda swarmish, I guess skaven has better shooting, Orcs have better melee? |
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| CurseoftheHornedSheep | 2nd January 2010 - 05:10 PM Post #10 |
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Chieftain
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Seems to me like O&G are the most underpowered of the WHFB armies... I've consistently had victories against skilled O&G players, and I sort of feel bad for them when they get consistently bad dice rolling. As for the Doomwheel, I've never had the thing break even Victory Points-wise, albeit I've just recently finished assembling it and thus have only used it in two games. In the first game, it flew forward, passed the leadership check to not shoot lightning (it was closest to my Plague Furnace-pushing monk block), flew forward again, hitting state troops in the flank... Alas, for I was inexperienced with the Doomwheel, and thus allowed it to shoot. It fired a state troop with the first bolt and misfired on the second bolt, blowing the thing up before it got impact hits and loads of dead state troops in. LESSON LEARNED: When using a doomwheel, ALWAYS try not to shoot the Warp Lightning unless you're close to a monster, rare choice, hero/lord in its own unit, etc. Second time I used the Doomwheel, it got all three bolts off at a dwarven gyrocopter (costs ten points less than a Doomwheel). First bolt was Strength 2, did nothing. Second bolt caused two wounds, third bolt caused five wounds... the gyrocopter has three wounds. The turn after, the Doomwheel got hit once by a great cannon and died (it was a Skaven vs. Dwarf-thing and Man-thing game, Skaven won ).That being said, I still think that the Doomwheel is awesome, and given the right situation, it could obliterate stuff four times its points value with ease. |
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Despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage... THIRTEENTH SPELL CASTS: 13 KILLS: 72 Empire Swordsmen, 12 Greatswords, 1 Warrior Priest, 2 Captains of the Empire, 1 Whatever the Empire's lord-level mage is called, 36 Dwarf Hammerers, 2 Thanes, 1 Dwarf Lord on Shieldbearers, 1 Dwarf Lord, 19 Saurus Temple Guard, 14 Chaos Chosen, 12 Glade Guard Fellblade Kills: 3 Dwarven war machines, 1 Dwarf Runelord, 1 Dark Elf Hyrdra, 1 High Elf Sun Dragon, 1 High Elf Dragon Mage | |
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| Riktikticheck | 2nd January 2010 - 05:30 PM Post #11 |
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Warlord
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you only roll once for strenght per shooting phase for all 3 bolts. stated clearly in the rules. |
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| Joasht | 2nd January 2010 - 05:50 PM Post #12 |
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Clanrat
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I managed to obtain the Skaven army book as well, and after a quick read, the fluff sure makes me feel like I'm playing a freaking Nurgle army rather than an army of angry rat men who want their cheese (I knew they had the whole pestilence thing going on, but I never actually read much Skaven fluff before this :P) I'm fascinated by several aspects after flipping through the books, hope you guys could give me your thoughts on: 1) Rat Ogres, yeay or nay? They seem fun, and I do like the models. 2) Screaming Bell/Plague Furnace, yeay or nay? To be honest the model looks like hell to paint, but if I'm reading it right, its legal to squeeze a Plague Furnace into a 1,000 point army......thats kind of disturbing. 3) Any conversion ideas for the Abomination? I'm not a big fan of a writhing lump of flesh because me trying to create one would probably cause it to end up looking like...."waste matter" rather than a terrifying abomination. 4) What weapon teams do you guys think are good for the Clanrats (or none at all?)? So many options..... 5) Pity Stormvermin being mediocre, I love the models. Would it be crazy to make a Stormvermin-themed army? They don't really hit hard nor can they take too much hitting back, but they seem pretty fast (both M and I wise). And well, I just really love the models. 6) Speaking of Stormvermin-heavy armies, it seems like the Skaven army is capable of going "elite-heavy"; a few Stormvermin, Doomwheels/Abominations, Rat Ogres, Furnaces/Bells, Verminlord, etc. Basically a very small army that doesn't resemble a usual horde of rats. What do you guys think about this? Thanks! |
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| Cammerz | 2nd January 2010 - 06:07 PM Post #13 |
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Clanrat
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OK, here goes... 1) Entirely matter of opinion, I personally like them but other people will claim they're a waste of points. In only 1000pts it might be better to give them a miss but get them for larger games. 2) A plague furnace with a big unit of plague monks will be very hard to remove as your opponent will either have to destroy the furnace or remove almost every single plague monk as they will not flee. You could have it, but if you do you won't be able to afford many other toys eg. doomwheel 3) No idea, whatever you want, you could even go for a big model of a rat, (or an actual live rat if you can get it to stay still )4) Most, if not all the weapon teams are good, it just depends on how many points you are willing to spend and what sort of armies you would be fighting. 5) Stormvermin, fine, cool, I have a unit of them with my warlord. Despite many people not liking them, they're a unit with decent armour, a choice of extra strength attack or better armour save in combat (depends on what they're up against really) and they can carry a magic banner (no need to dish out the points for a BSB). Not to mention they look great. A stormvermin themed army might be pushing it, it would look fantastic and you could create some great lists but it wouldn't be quite as competetive. (I came up for a 5000pt list which has 6 units of 80 stormvermin as it's core choices [Roman cohort]) 6) Skaven are a horde army, it's best to play as such. Stormvermin aren't quite as elite as you might think, just a bit better than clanrats. You still need to keep the numbers up. In order for an elite sort of army, it's fine to have large numbers of those things but then finish it off with a couple of big units of clanrats and slaves to tie the enemy up so you can flank or rear-charge with your better guys. |
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<a href="http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm175/menu614/New%20Cats/?action=view¤t=IMG_0082-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm175/menu614/New%20Cats/IMG_0082-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> Hello rat-things, you're looking edible today | |
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| CurseoftheHornedSheep | 2nd January 2010 - 09:03 PM Post #14 |
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Chieftain
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Just read the thing about only rolling once for the doomwheeel... that definitely helps things, I though that there was a 50% chance of a misfire if you rolled for all three bolts. As for the six questions... 1) Rat Ogres are very fun to use... when they work. Most of the time they get obliterated by a cannon or something and use up a load of points. I think they're a fun choice in fluffy games, though. 2) A good Furnace unit is going to be around 600 points... 30 Plague Monks, the furnace, a Lvl 2 Plague Priest loaded up with stuff, full command, and a Plague Banner (the Plague Banner is a MUST for Plague Monks; I take it with just about every Plague Monk unit I use). So while taking the Furnace in a 1,000 point game isn't suggested by me, I will say that you can fit it into a 1,500 point game along with a Doomwheel (I tried a HPA, they cried "cheese" ). And that thing is a monster in close combat.3) I know a lot of people are fans of converting corpse carts, as well as those rat-moster-things from 40k that I'm forgetting the name of... or you could just use a load of green stuff. 4) I'm not too big of a Doomflayer person since they can't countercharge... though they do get a lot of close combat attacks, their impact hits are relatively low-strength and Ratlings are usually a better option for their cost. By the same token, Ratlings don't get very many shots (not to mention hits) in. I'd definitely pay 10 points more for the much for devastating (albeit less safe) Warpfire Thrower. With no partials with the flame template, automatic S5 hits that get an additional -2 to armor saves, flaming attacks, and the whole 1+ kill(s) = panic thing, they seem like the obvious (and popular) choice. As for Poisoned Wind Mortars, I have literally no experience with them and thus can't tell you anything about them. 5) With the exception of a couple of anti-fast cav failures, I seem to be having success with Stormvermin with a Chieftain in their midst. If you like Stormvermin, go for them--I've taken them over monks in small games a few times and have won with them. 6) I haven't really tried a "heavy" list... my friends get angry at me whenever I do. Though it seems like stuff could go wrong fast with a heavy list... and it doesn't seem to be cannon-friendly. |
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Despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage... THIRTEENTH SPELL CASTS: 13 KILLS: 72 Empire Swordsmen, 12 Greatswords, 1 Warrior Priest, 2 Captains of the Empire, 1 Whatever the Empire's lord-level mage is called, 36 Dwarf Hammerers, 2 Thanes, 1 Dwarf Lord on Shieldbearers, 1 Dwarf Lord, 19 Saurus Temple Guard, 14 Chaos Chosen, 12 Glade Guard Fellblade Kills: 3 Dwarven war machines, 1 Dwarf Runelord, 1 Dark Elf Hyrdra, 1 High Elf Sun Dragon, 1 High Elf Dragon Mage | |
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| Mr.A_the_rat | 2nd January 2010 - 09:40 PM Post #15 |
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Clanrat
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about the plague furnace thing, you can actually fit one into 500pts |
| surely cheese is more important than warpstone | |
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