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Storm Banner; Is it one use only or not?
Topic Started: 31st December 2009 - 05:29 AM (699 Views)
Demonrat Thing
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The Bloated
*bsb* So here's a question that came up in one of my friendly games. Is the Storm Banner one use only, or can I use it over and over again thoughout the entire game/6 turns? What have you to say?
Doom, Doom, Doom,
it seems to endlessly say… all will fall, all will be ruinous,
Doom, Doom, Doom.
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chieftainskritchskritch
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The Freshmaker

The is possibly the MOST frequently asked question in the ENTIRE skaven army book. The answer generally is unclear. Some people argue for multi-use (ie: according to RAW) and some for 1 use only (ie: according to supposed RAI).

It seems the best course of action is to discuss it with your opponent until an FAQ is released.

Although, as a point of reference, most of the non-english books list the StormBanner as 1 use only, and the Direwolf council (the people posing GW the FAQ questions) supposedly has it on good authority that this will be changed in the english book in future prints to say 1 use only.
You kids these days have it so easy, what with your Plague Furnaces and your Hellpit Abominations and your Bonebreaker Warlords. Back in MY day, all we had was Slaves and Clanrats!...and auto-hit Ratling Guns...and skirmishing Jezzails...and 2D6 Warp Lightning...and Lead From The Back...wait, what was my arguement again?
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Mahtobedis
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Warlord
Seeing as both the german and french editions of the book say it is one use only, I think it is very likely that a lack of the one use only is a typo in our books should be treated as such.
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Rats&Goblins
Chieftain
Mahtobedis, except, they aren't written seperately. A copy of the english one is sent out to the various translators. So mostly it depends on whether it was a concious change to the document to be translated, or the english version to be printed. :)
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Silverback
Clanrat
This may just be me being bitter about how poorly written our book is but here's my two cents...

The writing in foreign language books doesn't mean anything at all. There are countless instances of rules being different between the french, english and german versions not only of army books but even of rule books. Who is to then say which is correct or if it is a translation error or what. Same goes accordningly with foreign language FAQs.

The wording in our book makes it clear that it can be used repeatedly throughout the game and until GW actually publishes a change, in WD, or in a FAQ it should be played as such.

If anyone gives you any crap about it, pull out the november WD and point out that based on the writers comments it was aboviously his intent (since arguments for single use SB are all about what was intended) tht skaven get Ld bonus for every rank.
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Mahtobedis
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Warlord
Fair enough
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Yobtar
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Grey Seer - Summoner of Verminlords
chieftainskritchskritch
Dec 31 2009, 12:45 AM
The is possibly the MOST frequently asked question in the ENTIRE skaven army book. The answer generally is unclear. Some people argue for multi-use (ie: according to RAW) and some for 1 use only (ie: according to supposed RAI).

It seems the best course of action is to discuss it with your opponent until an FAQ is released.

Until it is FAQ'd I agree with discussing it with your opponent out of courtesy but that will only get you so far.

Or just play it as RAW and when they protest ask them to show you where it says one use only in your army book.

I would not go as far as trying to reactivate it on the turn it expires cause that imo is taking it beyond RAW.
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How can we have a 9 page FAQ?
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Ratarsed
Grey Seer
I would recommend playing it as one use only so you don't get reliant on the banners power should it be errata'd to one use only. It could put you back 6 months if you have to re-learn your army tactics. Not only that you get to keep your friends B)

Ratarsed
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Yobtar
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Grey Seer - Summoner of Verminlords
If you need to rely on the storm banner to ensure a victory then you really need to reconsider your tactics immediately.
Having a magic item that is not reliable be the cornerstone of your battle plan is no way to build an army or plan strategy. If you need a to rely on a crutch this badly you might want to reconsider dropping Skaven and starting a new army.

If your "friends" are having a tough time with it then discuss it with them before hand but if your "friends" refuse to compromise or refuse to follow RAW then they probably arent your "friends" at all. Especially if they are willing to drop you as a "friend" because you stand your ground and follow RAW. What kind of "friends" do that over a game of Warhammer?

In my group the Skaven players rarely field it as it is not reliable to begin with and the fact that we are confident in our knowledge and tactics of the Skaven army that we dont need to bring it to be competitive or even win battles. We face opponents who play all of the other races in Warhammer except for Brets.
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How can we have a 9 page FAQ?
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nosreme


As RAI, it's one use only.
As RAW, it is not
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Ratarsed
Grey Seer
Yobtar
Jan 1 2010, 01:34 AM
If you need to rely on the storm banner to ensure a victory then you really need to reconsider your tactics immediately.
Having a magic item that is not reliable be the cornerstone of your battle plan is no way to build an army or plan strategy. If you need a to rely on a crutch this badly you might want to reconsider dropping Skaven and starting a new army.


If you play it as multiple use then it becomes a very reliable piece if kit. Guaranteeing a shut down of half the opponents flying moves and shooting phases and giving a good chance of more.
Play it as one use only and you cannot rely on it to cover your mistakes and as such you will be a better player for it.
My recommendation stands.

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If your "friends" are having a tough time with it then discuss it with them before hand but if your "friends" refuse to compromise or refuse to follow RAW then they probably arent your "friends" at all. Especially if they are willing to drop you as a "friend" because you stand your ground and follow RAW. What kind of "friends" do that over a game of Warhammer?


Friendship runs both ways. A friendly compromise is to play one use only and not to keep slapping a flying ban on their Griffins, Manticores, Dragons and Girocopters or a harsh shooting penalty on the handgunners archers and crossbows. Learning to deal with these threats without the constant crutch of a multi use banner will make you a better player.
My recommendation stands.

Ratarsed
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throtstillsux:(
Stormvermin
Wow. I've never realised it didn't say one use only...just always assumed. Damn I need to read the new book word for word, not that I would like to be able to use the storm banner again and again (though it would be nice to say f-u dragons) it just seems I keep missing huge differences due to slight wording changed between the old and new. I've always played it as one use only and will continue to do so, and one last thing, what is RAI and RAW?
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Ratarsed
Grey Seer
RAI = Rules As Intended
RAW = Rules AS Written

There are a lot of subtle changes I'm still learning. For example did you know a plague priest with censer in a unit of plague monks no longer has to take a gas test for himself? The words "as should the bearer himslef" have gone so only those in base contact are affected.
Also Poison no longer only applies to the assassins mundane weapons so weaping blades, stars and the like all now count as poisoned.

Ratarsed
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13 oz Mouse
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Clanrat
Being relatively new to skaven, I have the advantage of only knowing the new codex, so nothing seems out of the ordinary. But if it weren't for other people mentioning it I would have never known storm banner was originally one use only.

Looking at the item it really makes more sense that it be one use only. It is the type of thing that should not only be Faq'd, but also changed for later printings of the codex.
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Ratarsed
Grey Seer
13 oz Mouse
Jan 1 2010, 04:13 AM
It is the type of thing that should not only be Faq'd, but also changed for later printings of the codex.

What you will not know then, is that in 6th edition they used exactly the same wording for the effects of the banner as they do now (with the exception it always said one use only). Shortly after the 6th edition book was released they errata'd the stom banner entry to read such that even magical shooting that did not use balistic skill was affected and only magic missile spells remained unaffected. Come new 7th edition book they have gone back to the original wording on the storm banner that they previously decided needed to be changed. :blink:

Deliberate or incompetence? If you believe the first then Skaven sooting that does not use BS gets to avoid the affects of the banner, if you believe the second then ony magic missiles are exempt and skaven shooting has to roll the 4+

Ratarsed
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