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Clanrats - no longer worth it?
Topic Started: 29th December 2009 - 12:29 AM (921 Views)
Eshk
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Chieftain
Bibamus
Dec 29 2009, 07:13 AM
you guys keep forgetting that the PM's dont count towards a rank, so either you have 10 rat attacks and +3 ranks, or 10 rat attacks +PM atacks and +2 rank since they can only hit over 3 ranks of rats

Actually, packmasters only don't count towards rank when leading rat ogres. In units of giant rats, they act as normal and so can contribute to rank bonus.



I think you have some good points there and the M6 is a big one, but I still find the armour save, more static CR, and weapon teams to be worth it. I mean the core units of skaven armies don't really rely on getting kills to win things (except maybe stormvermin occasionally), they count on maxing out CR as much as possible and then holding until a hard hitter can come in to finish the job. And I think the clanrats are better at that. Also, a 4+ save is nothing to dismiss, lots of armies have units with 4+ saves or worse. I mean elves are better at getting the kills but don't even have that 4+ save and often only have s3 so won't negate anything. Dwarves have better armour but they still only have s3 also. I mean if you are thinking about taking a charge from heavy cavalry, either unit isn't going to do well and there is no way you should expect to win that regardless. But going toe-to-toe with other core infantry, clanrats can hold their own (barely) while I think giant rats suffer from lack of defenses.
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DNA Maniac
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Stormvermin
Riktikticheck
Dec 28 2009, 11:27 PM
seems you forgot the giant rats outnumber, which would cancel the banner out and let them win by 1.

oh my mistake but i already calculated as giantrats doing better and clanrats doing worse then usual. anyway it was my point, its not a win win for giantrats.

BTW skaven dosent have to trust hardhitters...

try a stormvermin(or clanrat) w shields to hold their ground and any kind of flank attack will make you win esp if u give them the banner of clan superiority. 3d3+1 static rocks...

esp if its the stormwermin on the flank it will then flank attack to next unit fighting on the line so it will suddenly make u massacre your enemy.

for outflank; giantrats can do better but for the bulk of the army u always need thoose clanrats. thats my opinion...

PS: Rat ogres can newer make a rank, no limits on giant rats, it would be absurd anyway...
It's Alive!!! It's Alive!!!
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Bibamus
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Grey Seer
hmm... my mistake... i guess i should read the book again :P sorry for that
as for the banner of clan superiority... you're better off with a warbanner unless you have BSB in teh unit... and even then shroud of dripping death or underempire do better
It would be ugly to watch people poking sticks at a caged rat. It is uglier still to watch rats poking sticks at a caged person.


13th spell casts: 2 Kills: 32 Grave Guard,1 Vampire Lord
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Black Death
Dead-Eye Squeekish
Both units definately still have their uses, and I would say that Clanrats are very far from being obselete. They are infinately studier than the GR and come with the option of wepaons teams.

What has changed, however, is that GR are now much much stronger than they wer in previous editions. You could now easily match your clanrats 1:1 with GR to allow for some really nasty flanking options.
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Silverback
Clanrat
I take issue with some of the "givens" in the original post. Tha vast majority of enemy infantry models still only put out str3 attacks and the ones that put out 4s and 5s, cost 2-3 tems what a clanrat does and most dont move as fast so are less likely to get the charge.

That said, the grinding battle of attrition that was so dreaded and perceived by the original poster as a foregone loss, is exactly the point of the clanrat. But since they arer so inexpensive, only a fool throws a unit of them all by it's lonesome against superior infantry. The static 5 should be supplemented immediatly by something in a flank/rear giving a higher static rez and increasing the chances (due to number of high initiative rats) of actually killing something.

Those uber infantry are nasty to be sure, but they just need to be first priority targets for your magic/shooting/Abomb/Wheel/doomrocket. By the time elite infantry encounter clanrats they should be pretty whittled down.
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