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Grey Seer on bell Questions...; what happens after seer dies? and stuff
Topic Started: 15th December 2009 - 07:47 PM (721 Views)
Quasarcq
Clanrat
I'm still only 3 months into playing WHF so forgive me if this sounds like a simple question....

The rules are not very clear what happens to the screaming bell when the grey seer dies or is removed from it. The rules state that he can not be voluntarily removed and that the only way he can be is if the bell is destroyed. The rules in the army book also describe the bell as a special kind of mount (one that uses a unit as it's beasts of burden).

The reason this came up was that the other night The bell and Unit pushing it were in combat with a giant, the giant then proceeded to pick the seer off the bell and eat him, lucky rolls on my opponent's part. As far as I could tell the maneuver was perfectly legal, and there was nothing to stop him from doing so (well I tried, but no luck on the seer's part). bye, bye, grey seer, man that sucked! Anything I could have done to defend from this, eh?

So the seer gets eaten, what happens to the Bell? It should remain in play with the rat ogre right? And the unit pushes it as normal?
Genius... Madness... Secrecy!
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Clanseer Skabrius
Lord of the Undermountain
If the Grey Seer dies the Screaming Bell stays with the Rat Ogre, and the unit remains unbreakable as long as the Bell is alive. However, I think your friend was wrong with the 'pick up and...' attack: He had to use the 'big things' chart imo. I can't imagine how a giant would stuff a Screaming Bell down his trousers. :P (Or hurl it to another combat).
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Edit
Stormvermin
i think the giant can target riders of monsters and use the little chart can't they? Sounds like that is what happened.

But I think this was one of the question put up to direwolf for the FAQ as a bell/furnace is a monstrous mount of sorts, and they wanted to know if it got pushed out of the unit (like a steg, etc) if the rider dies.
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Worsneek the warped swarmer
Master rat of annoyance
WHat happens if both the unit AND the seer dies?? How does it do combat resolution without leadership?? My opponent was convinced that it was removed as a casulty as it is - in leadership.. but on the other side it is a mount, and nowhere does it say that it can use the ld of the unit if the grey seer dies
Rød grød med fløde
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Bibamus
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Grey Seer
same thing with the PF, the consensus seems to be that it keeps fighting as an ubreakable moster
It would be ugly to watch people poking sticks at a caged rat. It is uglier still to watch rats poking sticks at a caged person.


13th spell casts: 2 Kills: 32 Grave Guard,1 Vampire Lord
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chieftainskritchskritch
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The Freshmaker

Bibamus
Dec 15 2009, 08:18 PM
same thing with the PF, the consensus seems to be that it keeps fighting as an ubreakable moster

+1.

The bell stays in combat until it is destroyed by an enemy. It is the bell itself that confers Unbreakable, so removing the seer as a casualty wont remove Unbreakable from the pushing unit.

However, an interesting point IS raised when the seer and unit is destroyed. The bell confers Unbreakable to a unit, so would it be Unbreakable by itself? Personally, I would play it that it was, but it is an interesting notion.....
You kids these days have it so easy, what with your Plague Furnaces and your Hellpit Abominations and your Bonebreaker Warlords. Back in MY day, all we had was Slaves and Clanrats!...and auto-hit Ratling Guns...and skirmishing Jezzails...and 2D6 Warp Lightning...and Lead From The Back...wait, what was my arguement again?
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FurryFiend
Chieftain
The bell by itself is not Unbreakable. Cus it only gives unbreakable to the unit that is pushing it and the grey seer.
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chieftainskritchskritch
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The Freshmaker

FurryFiend
Dec 16 2009, 12:14 AM
The bell by itself is not Unbreakable. Cus it only gives unbreakable to the unit that is pushing it and the grey seer.

Exactly. And thats the question. What happens when the bell itself is attacked in combat? Will it auto-break and die? Will it just stand there?
You kids these days have it so easy, what with your Plague Furnaces and your Hellpit Abominations and your Bonebreaker Warlords. Back in MY day, all we had was Slaves and Clanrats!...and auto-hit Ratling Guns...and skirmishing Jezzails...and 2D6 Warp Lightning...and Lead From The Back...wait, what was my arguement again?
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FurryFiend
Chieftain
Well it wont just stand there. The rat ogres will still fight back. Now about breaking I have no clue. Since it wont have a movement and doesn't have a leadership.

So I would play it as if it loses combat it flees. Since It has no movement it gets over run and is destroyed.
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SiliconSicilian
Grey Seer
I would deem this as being way too literal with an oversight. The model should be considered unbreakable. We'll see what the FAQ says if anything.
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chieftainskritchskritch
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The Freshmaker

SiliconSicilian
Dec 16 2009, 12:30 AM
I would deem this as being way too literal with an oversight. The model should be considered unbreakable. We'll see what the FAQ says if anything.

i reckon it will go Unbreakable in the FAQ too, solely because it is crewed by a RO. Were it NOT crewed (and therefore unable to physically attack), i would have voted that it was auto-destroyed.

Although sucks to be the S3 unit that gets stuck in combat with it for the rest of the game. :D
You kids these days have it so easy, what with your Plague Furnaces and your Hellpit Abominations and your Bonebreaker Warlords. Back in MY day, all we had was Slaves and Clanrats!...and auto-hit Ratling Guns...and skirmishing Jezzails...and 2D6 Warp Lightning...and Lead From The Back...wait, what was my arguement again?
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Surbrus
Clanrat
FurryFiend
Dec 16 2009, 12:14 AM
The bell by itself is not Unbreakable. Cus it only gives unbreakable to the unit that is pushing it and the grey seer.

Wouldn't that be like saying the Banner of the Underempire does not work when a BSB is by himself outside a unit? As the BoU says that enemies must be in contact with "the unit".
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FurryFiend
Chieftain
Surbrus
Dec 16 2009, 11:14 AM
FurryFiend
Dec 16 2009, 12:14 AM
The bell by itself is not Unbreakable. Cus it only gives unbreakable to the unit that is pushing it and the grey seer.

Wouldn't that be like saying the Banner of the Underempire does not work when a BSB is by himself outside a unit? As the BoU says that enemies must be in contact with "the unit".

A single model is still a unit.

The Bell says that it only gives Unbreakable to the unit pushing the bell and the greyseer. Not the Bell itself.
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Bibamus
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Grey Seer
well untill teh FAQ comes i'll play it like: unbreakable but hwne a blade of realitlies hits it it is aut-destroyed since it has no Ld.... we just have to wait for the FAQ (new skaven book/ not beta-version skaven book)
It would be ugly to watch people poking sticks at a caged rat. It is uglier still to watch rats poking sticks at a caged person.


13th spell casts: 2 Kills: 32 Grave Guard,1 Vampire Lord
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Yobtar
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Grey Seer - Summoner of Verminlords
the bell is unbreakable as per pg 79 of the BRB,

Mounts' Psychology, 3rd paragraph.

As long as the SB/PF have one wound left it is unbreakable. The GS/PP have no bearing on unbreakable as per pgs 42 and 48 of the Skaven army book.
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How can we have a 9 page FAQ?
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