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Plague Furnace; a silly question
Topic Started: 10th December 2009 - 10:40 PM (1,048 Views)
Bibamus
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as it is nowhere mentioned what actually happens when a unit around the PF dies, it just remains there... doing nothing.
considering a linst with 2xPF, in 2 seprate units where one of the units is wiped and the PF remains there doing... nothing, could the other unit take it along for the ride? both are unbreakable so that shouldn't be a problem, other than that it should be able to do this, or did i get the rules for pushed into battle wrong?
It would be ugly to watch people poking sticks at a caged rat. It is uglier still to watch rats poking sticks at a caged person.


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Rakchew
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Good question, I would say as long as you have 20 plague monks left, (10 for each furnace for maximum movement) then it would be viable. Why wouldn't they want to go grab a huge warmachine and use it.

Then again...I am pretty sure that if the unit + PP dies then you remove the furnace from the battlefield. I mean anything else that has crew is pretty much removed as well. (bolt throwers, cannons, etc)

I could be wrong on that last line.
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Bibamus
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i think PF/SB works more like a stegadon than a warmachine (beacause its a mounstrous mount). it definatly does not roll on the moster reaction chart when the PP dies, but other than that it acts like a normal moster with the rider killed.
that being said... monsters with dead riders cant join units/must leave them as per BRB... but the PF/SB doesn't leave the unit when the PP/GS dies, so can it join one based on that argument?
It would be ugly to watch people poking sticks at a caged rat. It is uglier still to watch rats poking sticks at a caged person.


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Skitch
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Rakchew
Dec 10 2009, 05:51 PM
Then again...I am pretty sure that if the unit + PP dies then you remove the furnace from the battlefield.  I mean anything else that has crew is pretty much removed as well.  (bolt throwers, cannons, etc)

Imo, the furnace stays on the battlefield and is only removed when it is destroyed. That it can't do anything doesn't mean it should be removed from play. And don't forget it still has a crew it's only integrated in the model. Similar to the steamtank, which also has a crew (engineer) that cannot be killed seperately. (But Iam not entirely convinced either, it needs some serious faqs)

On the matter of joining the unit I say there are no special rules regarding regarding joining the furnince in the game. Which means that you should use the rules in the BRB. You could even argue that an other unit then plague monks can pick up the furnace since it's no longer unbreakable, tough you won't get as many benefits.

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CapAmr05
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I'm pretty sure it would just sit there waiting for charges or to get magicked/shot to hell.

I'm not sure another plaguemonk unit could roll in and pick it up, I don't think they couldn't either; I really don't know how to play this. Warmachines can be joined by other crews, orphaned monster-mounts can't join or remain a part of other units. The Bell and Furnace function as a hybrid of the two (but never explicitly state they are one or the other--that I've noticed anyways).

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ratboy1018
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i'm not giving away free victory points for my furnace or my bell if the rider dies. they stay on the table until destroyed.
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Rakchew
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I would say that if the rest of the unit is killed in CC (monks and priest), then it would be assumed that the winning unit can either overrun the model by winning combat, since the furnace has no LD to test for break tests (and would autofail)

Or that once the final model is killed they don't get to overrun but the model is removed from the table, assuming the attackers would decimate it.

So the only way it could feasibly stay on the table is if the entire unit is killed via shooting/magic.

As always, imo.

Cheers.
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Tenoshii
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Rakchew
Dec 11 2009, 04:10 PM
I would say that if the rest of the unit is killed in CC (monks and priest), then it would be assumed that the winning unit can either overrun the model by winning combat, since the furnace has no LD to test for break tests (and would autofail)

Or that once the final model is killed they don't get to overrun but the model is removed from the table, assuming the attackers would decimate it.

So the only way it could feasibly stay on the table is if the entire unit is killed via shooting/magic.

As always, imo.

Cheers.

For combat I'd go with the former.

The Furnace has no LD, therefore is would automatically fail it's break test and since all the monks are dead it would have a movement of 0 and be unable to flee. The winners of the combat could then make their pursuit move which would catch the furnace, thereby destroying it.

Against shooting and magic, use the rules for warmachines without crew. They stay on the table and can be recrewed by another crew on the table i.e. another unit of monks. Decide with your opponent whether another Priest can hop on board or not :P
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Bibamus
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i've given thi some thought:
alltough the rules only mention the PP and PM's as unbreakable, i wouldn't know if it was unbreakable or not if both are dead

as for joining units:
as it was mentioned, orphaned monstrous mounts can't join units
to join a unit you have to move to get in base contact with it

following these 2 arguments i would say the PF is unable to join a unit if its own pushers are dead because its a monster and it can not move to get into base contact

does anyone disagree?
It would be ugly to watch people poking sticks at a caged rat. It is uglier still to watch rats poking sticks at a caged person.


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FurryFiend
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The furnace isnt a monsterous mount guys. It is a special kind of mount. So it should be able to join other units of plague monks. So the plague monks would just have to move into contact with the furnace to join it. then they can start pushing it.
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CapAmr05
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I'm more of the opinion that, if the furnace is the only thing left, (dead PP, dead PM) it would sit there, (unbreakable- since it is crewed by PMs, and its presence makes monks unbreakable, meaning regardless of its LD it is unbreakable) and would fight till the final bitter wound.

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Bibamus
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CapAmr05
Dec 11 2009, 07:36 PM
unbreakable- since it is crewed by PMs, and its presence makes monks unbreakable, meaning regardless of its LD it is unbreakable

debatable, but i wouldn;t play it any other way
It would be ugly to watch people poking sticks at a caged rat. It is uglier still to watch rats poking sticks at a caged person.


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CapAmr05
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Yes, incredibly sketchy.

But that's the most logical conclusion I can come too; the only time a warmachine is overrun (spiked/ removed) is when the crew are all gone and the attacking unit goes over it, the PF crew are built into the 'machine' so I can't see the enemy just blowing through it once the PMs and PP is gone.

Again, totally opinion.

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SiliconSicilian
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But a logical one, Cap.
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Skitch
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Clanrat
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Dec 11 2009, 07:05 PM
The furnace isnt a monsterous mount guys. It is a special kind of mount. So it should be able to join other units of plague monks. So the plague monks would just have to move into contact with the furnace to join it. then they can start pushing it.

If it isn't a monstrous mount then what is it's US?

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