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The Doomwheel; -Is it broken?
Topic Started: 6th December 2009 - 10:28 AM (2,334 Views)
Bibamus
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Grey Seer
i know that this isn't relevant to the topic at hand, but i'm curious how do chaos knights get 4+ ward save.
It would be ugly to watch people poking sticks at a caged rat. It is uglier still to watch rats poking sticks at a caged person.


13th spell casts: 2 Kills: 32 Grave Guard,1 Vampire Lord
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BloodStream
Clanrat
Very well, then. I'll let the Knight situation go, since it seems that it probably was luck on my part (Although I was wounding on 2s and he only got a 5+ save from it, and I've managed to consistently deal with them in the past few games. Granted, mostly from flank charges, but they've yet to take it out.)

And I've never agreed with the S7 hits destroying chariots, but why does the Doomwheel have to be the exception to the rule? Not to mention the fact that the Doomwheel looks just as frail as Goblin or TK chariots. It's wheels are made from wood, if the wheels were to get damaged the entire thing would collapse. I don't want to get into an argument over realism, though.

And another thing. Not all armies have cannons. It's only Empire and Dwarfs, really.


And, Bidamus, I got a little confused. They had a 6+ ward save in combat, 4+ from shooting. Apologies.
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Sammy the Squid
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Back to retirement!

Quote:
 
Very well, then. I'll let the Knight situation go, since it seems that it probably was luck on my part (Although I was wounding on 2s and he only got a 5+ save from it, and I've managed to consistently deal with them in the past few games. Granted, mostly from flank charges, but they've yet to take it out.)


Dont you mean a 4+ Armour Save? Thats what they should have been getting against S6 ;)

- Sammy
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BloodStream
Clanrat
Sammy the Squid
Dec 6 2009, 08:42 AM
Quote:
 
Very well, then. I'll let the Knight situation go, since it seems that it probably was luck on my part (Although I was wounding on 2s and he only got a 5+ save from it, and I've managed to consistently deal with them in the past few games. Granted, mostly from flank charges, but they've yet to take it out.)


Dont you mean a 4+ Armour Save? Thats what they should have been getting against S6 ;)

- Sammy

I thought S6 was -3 to their armour saves?
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Bibamus
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Grey Seer
skaven have cannons too :P

and thanx for clearing the ward save up.
It would be ugly to watch people poking sticks at a caged rat. It is uglier still to watch rats poking sticks at a caged person.


13th spell casts: 2 Kills: 32 Grave Guard,1 Vampire Lord
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Sammy the Squid
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Back to retirement!

Quote:
 
I thought S6 was -3 to their armour saves?


It does, but Chaos Knights have a 1+ Armour Save! ;)

- Sammy
"If the squidman can't do it, no one can!!"

Wins/Losses/Draws

Skaven Clan Rattenkrieg - 108/58/20
Dark Elves - 44/14/8
Hochland Empire - 33/14/4
Malkavian Vampires - 23/22/4
Beastmen - 50/25/2

Have not completed a Painting Vow since July 07!!
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BloodStream
Clanrat
Sammy the Squid
Dec 6 2009, 09:14 AM
Quote:
 
I thought S6 was -3 to their armour saves?


It does, but Chaos Knights have a 1+ Armour Save! ;)

- Sammy

Ooooh. My mistake again, sorry.


Its all good, we all make mistakes :)
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I_ated_Warpstone
Grey Seer
For all the pandering to prevent the unit from being labeled broken, I'll go ahead and toss my hat in the "its a ridiculous unit" camp.

Having played near on 30 games at this point, everyone of them with a Doomwheel, it has never failed to be a good unit. I guess that's because I don't set my Doomwheel in the middle of my army and go "why did it blow me up?!", and I also run a HPA. My Doomwheel has killed Varghulfs, Blood Thristers, Dragons, Hydras, Black Guard, Chaos Knights, Archeon, Warhounds, Blood Knights, and I could go on and on and on. Even in games where my opponent has miraculously killed my Doomwheel it has garnered far more than 150 points before it dies. Keep in mind my opponents have only killed it maybe 5 times? And in those games it probably racked up 300 to 400 points.

The Doomwheel is virtually immune to small arms/magic missile fire. Rank and File troopers stand little chance of hurting it. It's far and away too fast and maneuverable to get bogged down in CR troops, allowing to hunt targets with virtual impunity. It destroys knights(oh you charged? whatever, grinding down the foe) and monstrous creatures(d6 wounds, no armor saves).

Doomwheels are undercosted for the amount of damage they can cause. Does that make it broken? Well that depends on you, but played well the Doomwheel will, at minimum, kill more points than it costs.
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bakfire the experimenter
graduate of the school for dangerous inventions
I have played lots of games against various opponents and i have always had problems dealing with dragons, hydra's anvils of doom, greater daemons, varghulf's etc.....

i was sick to death with daemon players putting a blood thirster on the table and laughing (not really laughing in my face but you get the idea) as their monster single handedly destroys my entire army as the only thing i had that may kill it before it got to me was the WLC.

i am glad we have something that stands a chance of killing these things and the stupid 1+ regenerating dark elf lord of death with an inverse ward save and the gem that means i probably shouldnt cast magic at or near him.

i wont take the HPA in a friendly game but when other people bring stuff that i cant deal with reliably then yeah the doom wheel will make the table and for once they will have to think
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Lord Squeekitt
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Proud Doomwheel owner
As I am frequent poster in the topic "Doomwheel does the funniest thing" myself, I could possibly talk about my luck with DW all night long.
Run into Orc Big'Uns with general, kill 7 by impact hits (!!!) - you know what THAT mean - and then survive his 7 S6 attacks (by lord only) with HATRED and then 4 other with S5 hero? No, thank you, I am just one lucky s.o.a b. ,))
But that is Doomwheel!
Against any shooting army? Save 4+ is way too low and if they just hit it with a catapult (or cannon) you are done. That's it .)

Yeah, I find it very very very strong.. but it has it's limits. And when your opponent doesn't take care/step back from it.. he might end up dead.) But charge it and you are done.

On the other hand I have never ever seen such a awesome flank unit - with it's powerful US5 it is just plain awesomness.

And as for A-Bomb - no, thanks .)

mutate: As for someone mentinoed list on 2k with 2 doomwheels - DO IT! .) I played 2500 game last night and had 2 wheels in. It was quite .. incredible .) Love it - the model, the rules, the idea .)
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CapAmr05
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I don't think the Doomwheel is broken, but it is close.

It is still an unreliable warmachine, with one or two bad rolls, or a 'lucky' first round missle/magic wound, and it's loss of control can really fold your flank or cause problems in your own battle line/ plan.

It is a calculated risk every time you set one down on the board, and I think that's what plays into its relative low cost, but your opponent never thinks of it from that angle, all they see is how devastating it can be for them (never realizing you can impact/ zap your own units or totally blow it up on a bad roll).

--Cap
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I_ated_Warpstone
Grey Seer
CapAmr05
Dec 6 2009, 03:33 PM
It is still an unreliable warmachine, with one or two bad rolls, or a 'lucky' first round missle/magic wound, and it's loss of control can really fold your flank or cause problems in your own battle line/ plan.


Of tactical consideration - just put the thing 18.5 away from another unit. Won't hurt your army on turn 1 or 2.
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"Hassle, annoy, aggravate, whatever it takes to not engage in a fair fight"
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Bibamus
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I_ated_Warpstone
Dec 6 2009, 03:39 PM
CapAmr05
Dec 6 2009, 03:33 PM
It is still an unreliable warmachine, with one or two bad rolls, or a 'lucky' first round missle/magic wound, and it's loss of control can really fold your flank or cause problems in your own battle line/ plan. 


Of tactical consideration - just put the thing 18.5 away from another unit. Won't hurt your army on turn 1 or 2.

that would either screw your deployment or you would have to be playing on a very big table, making it hard for the DW to come in contact with an enemy unit. (the way i see it). but i don't see a problem with the wheel running into slaves.... they might flee but thats just a 40 pts insurance.
It would be ugly to watch people poking sticks at a caged rat. It is uglier still to watch rats poking sticks at a caged person.


13th spell casts: 2 Kills: 32 Grave Guard,1 Vampire Lord
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I_ated_Warpstone
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Bibamus
Dec 6 2009, 03:53 PM
that would either screw your deployment or you would have to be playing on a very big table, making it hard for the DW to come in contact with an enemy unit. (the way i see it). but i don't see a problem with the wheel running into slaves.... they might flee but thats just a 40 pts insurance.

6 x 4 table should give you plenty of room to one flank or another to have an 18.5" gap. I play with 6 blocks of Infantry + 8 Jezzails + 7 Skirmishers + a HPA and I've never not had room to place it on the outs and then have it roll in shortly thereafter.
Skaven Tournament Performances
Battle for the Block - Best General
4th Quarter RT - Best Overall
Rumble in Jackson - Best Overall
Toys for Tots Charity Tourney - Best General
1st Quarter RT - Best Overall
Gamerz Depot Tourney - 1st Place

"Hassle, annoy, aggravate, whatever it takes to not engage in a fair fight"
Tournament players are people too
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CapAmr05
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I usually take a spread horde, but even starting the thing 19" away from the rest of your force can cause a backfire if your opponent sends it out of control and (randomly) back towards your line. There's a lot of tactical precautions you have to take with the doomwheel to keep it from hindering your own force that just isn't overly present in any other army (except maybe orcs).

--Cap
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