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Games Workshop is sinking REALLY low; All BoardGameGeek GW files taken offline
Topic Started: 26th November 2009 - 01:36 PM (2,356 Views)
Skaven Lord Vinshqueek
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URL: http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/48933

Quote:
 
The Games Workshop Files Purge of '09

No doubt those of you who have supported Games Workshop in the past by creating files for use with their games will have noticed they are all being deleted from BGG at the behest of their lawyers.

So here's a little paeon to the games that I spent many hours creating rules summaries and reference sheets for that are no longer available here. They're still at my personal site, but I don't imagine they'll be there for long.

No doubt they'll be more items on this list before long.

If you are interested in my opinion of this kind of activity, check out the latest entry on my blog at www.headlesshollow.com.


:o

While I could somehow sympathize with Games Workshop on scourging the internet on possible threats to the Blood Bowl trademark, I have to say that I'm currently absolutely disgusted by the direction they're going... It's as if their legal department is trying to reach a five-year quotum of 'taken down sites' in just a couple of weeks. I honestly have no good word for Games Workshop if they start punishing people for making things like reference sheets for Mordheim.

Well... That's Vallejo paints and eBay only for Vinz from now on. :rolleyes:

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Nilax
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GW has always been fat with hubris. I'm grateful that competition such as Privateer Press, which has always been more player-friendly, is picking up steam. (Free army builder / Beta tests / Official forums that don't close at the first sign of criticism? / madness!)

Still, when it comes to Warhammer I am admittedly a captive audience. I try not to think of the business practices I support when I fork it over for the next new awesome model.

Shame about the references being stricken down but I've come to expect it from them.

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Ratmaster Rex
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chieftainskritchskritch
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Thas a really good question, rex!

Id also like to know if the UE has recieved an GW threats in the past. Surely with our unscrupulous use of trademarked names like "armour" and "dice", it was surely only a matter of time!!! :P
You kids these days have it so easy, what with your Plague Furnaces and your Hellpit Abominations and your Bonebreaker Warlords. Back in MY day, all we had was Slaves and Clanrats!...and auto-hit Ratling Guns...and skirmishing Jezzails...and 2D6 Warp Lightning...and Lead From The Back...wait, what was my arguement again?
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Clanlord Trask
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Worth stating that, in the case of Boardgamegeeks, it seems to not be action against the website, but action against certain content. I can't say with any real certainty, but perhaps GWs issue was with how rules/content that it had written was being reused by the site?
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hakoMike
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More grey every day.
GW is an international company, and IP laws are really strange from country to country. It may be that by allowing certain content on this U.S. based site that they are risking exclusivity of their IP in another country.

I'm not an IP lawyer. I didn't even sleep at a Holiday Inn Express.
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Ratemis
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Nilax
Nov 26 2009, 10:22 AM
GW has always been fat with hubris.  I'm grateful that competition such as Privateer Press, which has always been more player-friendly, is picking up steam. (Free army builder / Beta tests / Official forums that don't close at the first sign of criticism? / madness!)

Still, when it comes to Warhammer I am admittedly a captive audience.  I try not to think of the business practices I support when I fork it over for the next new awesome model. 

Shame about the references being stricken down but I've come to expect it from them.

Quote:
 
rules summaries and reference sheets

Doesn't exactly make this sound like the Board Game Geek files were entirely innocent here. From the sounds of it there was a lot of information that would otherwise make owning a book unnecessary, or at least enough to get by without one.

Privateer Press can get away with being more "player friendly" with letting people make those kinds of things because they don't spend jack on actually developing the setting and game beyond the rules. There's more "bro-speak" in their rulebooks than setting or background info. When a company invests in much more than rules like GW does, they tend to be more protective of what happens with their settings. The top people who actually thought out an entire setting and storyline tend to take it poorly when people go through and weed out that info and feed it back as "Reference Sheets" and "Rules Summaries".
I suppose taking a portrait painting and removing color and shading and giving the outlines out for free with the word "ART" stamped over it would be perfectly acceptable to the painter.

It seems perfectly acceptable for everyone to assume that this is a big faceless company when it suits our needs, but if someone was giving out a modified version of your product without checking with you and/or none of the quality assurance* then I must assume everyone else would all roll over and take it.

I find it more ironic when people throw Privateer Press out there as this paladin-like company that is not at all a faceless company when their only success is not caring what their people do with their product, and treating it less like a whole product and more like a video game to keep reformatting. Not even considering the quality of gameplay or going more deeply into the setting, but instead tossing expansion after expansion one on the other.
That seems more like a faceless corporation than the people who are constantly updating the setting and making rules changes to remove abusive rules and tactics.

Somewhat especially ironic for these kinds of things to pop up on GW support and independent forums. I guess it's always easier to blame a corporation than to actually look at what your doing and making sure that it's well within the bounds given by the corporation. Or, you know, to actually go out and ask them. Seems only fair as it's their product and property your changing and modifying.



*GW has made mistakes on this front, but look at other games, video games, movies, and household products and you'll find that the use, abuse, and scrutiny by the masses can far outweigh what even the most professional quality assurance people can detect or predict.

**All "You"s in this post are the assumed "You" of the reader and not directed at anyone particular.
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I_ated_Warpstone
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I admittedly hold a personal grudge against Games Workshop and find any defense of the company to be founded on a basis of blind loyalism. Games Workshop ONLY cares about the bottom dollar. They don't care about the customer outside the money it spends, they don't care about their world, they don't care about the game outside the money it makes. The company is really one of the best examples of a soulless corporation that really is an evil empire.

But hey, shutting down my store and eliminating my job(the one I used to pay a car note and rent every month) with zero f**king warning at all has made me bitter to say the least.
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Ratemis
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I_ated_Warpstone
Dec 6 2009, 11:02 PM
I admittedly hold a personal grudge against Games Workshop and find any defense of the company to be founded on a basis of blind loyalism. Games Workshop ONLY cares about the bottom dollar. They don't care about the customer outside the money it spends, they don't care about their world, they don't care about the game outside the money it makes. The company is really one of the best examples of a soulless corporation that really is an evil empire.

But hey, shutting down my store and eliminating my job(the one I used to pay a car note and rent every month) with zero f**king warning at all has made me bitter to say the least.


That sucks. I was downsized a few years back with similar amount of warning, but wouldn't that be something to take up with your manager, or the person above him? It seems easier but less reasonable to blame the entire company.

My issue is that people tend to take personal objections and sometimes unreasonable claims and just blame an entire company rather than take the objection solely to the person or persons responsible for the particular grudge.
Blame has a tendency to not just roll up hill from where the filth hit after rolling down, it tends to blame the entire hill and the existence of hills and all un-level land masses in general.

And of course, everyone who disagrees must be entirely happy by hills, live on a hill, or be a hill themselves.
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scrivener
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Gee, what happened, ated_warpstone? That must've been tough. :blink:

I think it's a bit generalising to say that any defence of GW is blind loyalty, though. I do understand where they come from at times, even though they have made some really bad business decisions. Companies are run to make money, that's what companies are supposed to do. Even charity organisations make money. Ratemis has good points in that long speech of his about how things work and why they are the way they are.

The masses' opinions of what's right or justified does not always mesh with the law, you'd find. How many of us give a thought to the fact that we're denying a rich rockstar a few rightfully owed dollars when we download their music for free? :rolleyes:
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Ratemis
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scrivener
Dec 7 2009, 12:46 AM
Gee, what happened, ated_warpstone? That must've been tough. :blink:

I think it's a bit generalising to say that any defence of GW is blind loyalty, though. I do understand where they come from at times, even though they are a fairly poorly run company most of the time. Companies are run to make money, that's what companies are supposed to do. Even charity organisations make money.

The masses' opinions of what's right or justified does not always mesh with the law, you'd find. How many of us give a thought to the fact that we're denying a rich rockstar a few rightfully owed dollars when we download their music for free? :rolleyes:

Oooh! I think about it every time I oust Lars Ulric out of the $2.50 per cd he makes.
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Beyer
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Ratemis
Dec 7 2009, 05:58 AM
Privateer Press can get away with being more "player friendly" with letting people make those kinds of things because they don't spend jack on actually developing the setting and game beyond the rules. There's more "bro-speak" in their rulebooks than setting or background info.

Warmachine started out as a roleplaying game and still is an RPG.
It's called the iron kingdoms and the WM and hordes books are choc a bloc full of fluff, except PP doesn't mash the fluff in between rules and mix it up, they keep it separately, as they should be and one might be inclined to think that some people consider this "less fluff for the game" I however consider it common sense.

You can even get fluff for all the factions every time you buy a book and not just fluff for one faction as you do when you buy an army book.

Also, PP don't chance their fluff from edition to edition.

I don't care about anything but the rules though it's a game I play, not a roleplaying experience by any means. But saying PP has no fluff is outright wrong and overly biased.
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Clanlord Trask
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I_ated_Warpstone
Dec 6 2009, 11:02 PM
I admittedly hold a personal grudge against Games Workshop and find any defense of the company to be founded on a basis of blind loyalism. Games Workshop ONLY cares about the bottom dollar. They don't care about the customer outside the money it spends, they don't care about their world, they don't care about the game outside the money it makes. The company is really one of the best examples of a soulless corporation that really is an evil empire.

But hey, shutting down my store and eliminating my job(the one I used to pay a car note and rent every month) with zero f**king warning at all has made me bitter to say the least.

I feel slighted at this kind of comment.

Implying anyone with an opinion that differs to yours is simply them being unable to divorce their emotional investment in something is terrible. While someones opinion may be blatantly wrong, you reveal this through an intelligent use of the facts, and not through manipulating emotions. Only people with poor arguments attempt to prove their point using only feelings.

I don't mean to demean the obvious heartache that has been caused to you, but personal slights are irrelevant. Would you care to elaborate on the events that led you to forming your current opinion?

As for the point at hand, whether I agree with what GW is or has done is neither here nor there. I, and quite a few others, hhave merely put forward the view that in all likelyhood GW has every legal right to protect their property as they are. As a fellow 'company' that trades on creative material, I can only support this. The minute they step out of line of this, I will definately be at the front of the battleline defending our rights.
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Milney
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I_ated_Warpstone
Dec 6 2009, 11:02 PM
I admittedly hold a personal grudge against Games Workshop and find any defense of the company to be founded on a basis of blind loyalism. Games Workshop ONLY cares about the bottom dollar. They don't care about the customer outside the money it spends, they don't care about their world, they don't care about the game outside the money it makes. The company is really one of the best examples of a soulless corporation that really is an evil empire.

But hey, shutting down my store and eliminating my job(the one I used to pay a car note and rent every month) with zero f**king warning at all has made me bitter to say the least.

So you were a redshirt and they shut your store?

To be honest I agree with you, GW are a souless monstrosity, but the US market was over-extended as it was. I called it when they first moved over there, and lo and behold it shrunk massively in the intervening years.

But "holding a grudge" because they shut non-profitable store locations? Surely as a former redshirt it'd be more reasonable to hold a grudge against them for the rediculous sales targets they used to (and still do from talking with staffers) set which in turn would cause them to deem a store "unproffitable" in the first place.
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I_ated_Warpstone
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In response to those interested in my personal GW experience.

I was not a Redshirt - I was a Black Shirt(a manager) with an AR(added responsibility) title. This put me in a position to make roughly 48k a year(as a 22 year old with no college education that was good money). I worked for the company for a little over three years, I was a manager for the last year of my time with the company. My store was a profitable store(around a 13% profit margin) and showing annual growth. So all of the signs pointed to a successful store. We had a small but loyal customer base of about 300 to 350 people and that was growing. Things looked good.

So, since I thought I was in a position of financial stability I made some decisions. I decided to buy a car(financed for 14.5k) and move in to my own place(at about $550 a month). I did all of this in September. Life was good. I was investing money in my 401k, running a profitable store and growing my customer base.

Now for the downfall. One Thursday in March of 09 I drove to my store. I was going to meet my employees and we were going to have our weekly meeting to discuss store business. Well, I pull up in front of the building pretty early (had to prepare for the meeting) and as I do I see two cars outside and two people inside. I walk to the door and see my Regional Manager and another manager in my store. My Regional Manager tells me to sit down and wait for my employees. So my boys show up and we all have a seat. Then my Regional Manager proceeds to inform all of us that they were shutting down our store.

We had no warning at all. There was never even any rumblings that they might be closing us down. And we had no signs at the store because we were doing well! So, they took our keys and told us to pack up. We wouldn't be allowed to work the last weekend at the store, but if we wanted we could come watch them gut the store and watch the vultures pick at the remains. I packed my things that day and took them to my mother's house.

I then had to call my girlfriend(who lived with me) and let her know that our main source of income was gone. She came home and we started looking at our bills and came to the conclusion that we couldn't afford to live at the apartment anymore. So, I had to break my lease early (and take a huge hit to my credit score) to move out and back in with my mother.

So gents, that's my story of working for Games Workshop. Let's say that I'm an extremely bitter person concerning the company. And to anyone who suggests I should look to my regional manager, no. That's now how corporate structuring works at Games Workshop. The decision came from the very top. Stores aren't allowed to be opened or closed without permission from the head of that country's retail who has to have permission from Mark Wells. Closing my store sucked. No warning is bullshit. GW is a company that tells everyone that it is founded on Honesty, Courage, and Humility. Nothing about the way my store was closed was
any of those things. Nothing about the way GW treats people at all is any of those three things.

And to anyone who feels slighted or takes issue with my opinion concerning GW and its supporters - eh? I'm obstinate and hateful when it comes to the company who wasted three years of my life and at the end I was worse off than I was when I started. So, yeah I find any defense of Games Workshop founded in loyalty to a company that is possessed of a filthy underbelly that customers never see.
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4th Quarter RT - Best Overall
Rumble in Jackson - Best Overall
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1st Quarter RT - Best Overall
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"Hassle, annoy, aggravate, whatever it takes to not engage in a fair fight"
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