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Clarification of RO's; Strength in Numbers
Topic Started: 14th November 2009 - 06:33 AM (693 Views)
FatherSquee
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So in Running with the Pack it says Packmasters don't count towards rank bonus. But then you go to Rat Ogres and it says they can use the Packmaster's Strength in Numbers rule, both of these rules seem somewhat contradictory.

Am I right in thinking that a a pack of Rat Ogres counts only the Ogres for their rank bonus?
Here's what I thinking it says:
RORORORORO
RORORORORO
P P P P P
RO = Rat Ogre
P = Packmaster

In the above ranking the unit will gain +1 rank bonus for strength in numbers, as the RO's make up an additional rank, but the Packmasters don't add their rank to the Strength in Numbers bonus anymore because of Running with the Pack.

Is that how other people see it? Cuz man that really sucks :(
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Decker_cky
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That's indeed what it says. Ahh well, as least they don't have the silly "must be in a single rank" rule anymore.
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loathsome_ratman13
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u need 1 packmaster per RO remember
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Skavendrool
Chieftain
Not so, in the new book you only need/get 1 packmaster per 2 Rat Ogres (see p. 104).

So, to get a single +1 to leadership you'd need to sink almost 450 points into the unit (10 Rat Ogres and 5 packmasters). Still, if GW had not included the Strength in Numbers rule for Rat Ogre packs, we'd have asked whether they were eligible for it. So technically they are, it is just points-prohibitive.

Perhaps the Horned Rat has a sense of irony? :blink:

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Bellatrix_Lestrange
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Clanrat
I thought the rule was: you need at least one pack master per 2 rat ogres but you can then get a max of 1 more per pair...
So you can have either 1 or 2 packmasters per 2 ogres...

I might be mis-understanding this...
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CapAmr05
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You can have any number of rat ogres in the pack, after the min of 2 rat ogres, and first pack master.

You cannot have more than 1 pack master per 2 Rat ogres.

Extreme Example:
So if you wanted a pack of 21 rat ogres, at minimum you need 1 packmaster (to make the unit legal), but can't have more than 10 packmasters in the unit (unless you start adding more ROs).

--Cap
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hakoMike
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That's how I read it CapAmr05.

And if someone shoots the unit, there's a 2/3 chance the missile will hit a giant rat. Wait, a giant rat? Does it say that? How long before someone says "No, there's no way you can shoot rat ogres! Look at the mixed unit rule!" lol
So old. So so old.
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krosanreaper
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Ya that's part of why most people are adding master molders to RO's, he's a two wound packmaster.

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Chrisk of Nolfet Peak
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hakoMike
Nov 15 2009, 04:15 AM
That's how I read it CapAmr05.

And if someone shoots the unit, there's a 2/3 chance the missile will hit a giant rat.  Wait, a giant rat?  Does it say that?  How long before someone says "No, there's no way you can shoot rat ogres!  Look at the mixed unit rule!" lol

That makes me wonder.

The last book would have an packmaster with Ogres hit on only a 6 while being 5-6 with the giant rats.

I will play that the packmasters gets hit on 5-6 with the Ogres anyway, but cant help to wonder if they were intended to still be hit on 6. Since it's not being mentioned in the book.
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count zero
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In november White Dwarf Glenn More fields a unit of 3 RO and 2 packmasters. Just a stupide GW failure or in fact possible?

On theire website they changed the Pic of the RO box content to 1 packmaster behinde 2 RO and 2 packmasters behinde 6 GR. ??
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CapAmr05
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Just a stupide GW failure or in fact possible?


The first option.

The unit entry in the special section is very straight forward with the packmaster to Rat Ogre ratio (a stark divergence from some of the more convoluted writings and rules-generalizations in most of the rest of the book).

And if you browse through the pictures portraying rat ogres in the new book, almost every picture shows 3pm to 5 RO, but just because they took a picture of something that isn't possible in the game, doesn't give us reason to contradict a clearly stated rule.

--Cap
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Ratmaster Rex
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I hope they severely reduced the cost of rat ogres because if they didn't they pretty much made them even more useless to take than before. Now with more of a chance of them going stupid when the packmasters die first, which they will since there are less of them now. If at 50pt who is going to sink that many points into a ranked unit like this anyway? What were they thinking?

I hope my book gets here soon.
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Bobtailmaneater
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Ratmaster Rex
Nov 16 2009, 01:41 AM
I hope they severely reduced the cost of rat ogres because if they didn't they pretty much made them even more useless to take than before. Now with more of a chance of them going stupid when the packmasters die first, which they will since there are less of them now. If at 50pt who is going to sink that many points into a ranked unit like this anyway? What were they thinking?

I hope my book gets here soon.

I'm not about to start quoting prices from the book, but this was the very first thing that I looked up when my book arrived. I've been waiting for RO's to be worth their points since 4th edition, since I love the models and have always felt that they fit the fluff so perfectly. Alas, they suck even more now! The only viable option seems to be to upgrade to a master moulder, and if it's legal, add a moulder character to the unit (but I can't find it stated anywhere in the book that a moulder hero has the packmaster ability, although it would be pretty dumb if he didn't!).

On the downside, the unit's price tag would make it harder than ever to get your points back in enemy VP.

Really seems to suck....someone show me how wrong I am PLEASE!

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RatOnFire
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Nov 16 2009, 01:09 PM
Alas, they suck even more now!  The only viable option seems to be to upgrade to a master moulder, and if it's legal, add a moulder character to the unit (but I can't find it stated anywhere in the book that a moulder hero has the packmaster ability, although it would be pretty dumb if he didn't!).

On the downside, the unit's price tag would make it harder than ever to get your points back in enemy VP.

Really seems to suck....someone show me how wrong I am PLEASE!

As far as master moulders having the packmasters rule, see beast pack on p.55 under the rat ogres specials rules. Also, see Rat pack on p.54 under the giant rat special rules. They have it. Also, don't forget you can use the General's leadership for stupidity if he's close enough (see p.82 Warhammer rules).

And yes, I WILL show you how wrong you are :P As evidence, I cite the bodies of the stormvermin slaughtered after charging my rat ogres in the front. (failing their fear check may have helped a bit). Three rat ogres enter, two leave, then one gets shot by jezzails, and the last one doesn't care because he's FRENZIED! And the moral of the story... FEAR THE MIGHTY RAT OGRE!!! :rogre: :rogre: :rogre:

and all of that was AFTER they lost their only packmaster.
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kizzlesticks
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hakoMike
Nov 14 2009, 10:15 PM
That's how I read it CapAmr05.

And if someone shoots the unit, there's a 2/3 chance the missile will hit a giant rat. Wait, a giant rat? Does it say that? How long before someone says "No, there's no way you can shoot rat ogres! Look at the mixed unit rule!" lol

Hehe, I'll take that one step further.
"Ok, rolling to distribute hits against your rat ogre unit... 5 hit the ogres, 2 hit the...."
"Hang on, you're wrong there. Those five hit the giant rats."
"Uhh... what?"
"Over there, on the other side of the board."
"But I'm shooting at the rat ogres."
"Not according to this" *points to rule*
And that was how his stand and shoot reaction caused models on the other side of the board to flee in panic :P

Later!
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