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Best Hero/Lord choice + gear
Topic Started: 12th November 2009 - 08:41 AM (1,975 Views)
Tenoshii
Warlord
I most definitely see the point in fighty lords, just not a Skaven one. Most armies have some nasty magic item options to make their lord worth using or a large, rank breaking monster he can sit on and we have neither of those. The Rat Ogre mount is a missile magnet with no armour save and is woefully slow so unless you put him in a unit of Rat Ogres he's going to attract a lot of missile fire and won't last very long. Even in that unit it's still going to get shot a lot and once those packmasters are dead you have a general in a unit testing for stupidity on LD7.

The other alternative is the Fellblade which will likely kill him before the game is over, leaves him with no ward save or any other item options whatsoever so he's even more vunerable than before and he can still only kill 4 models a turn.

The Bell unit doesn't need to be in combat to be effective, it provides invaluable buffs to other units on the battlefield many of which vastly improve an aggressive playstyle, protects your general and makes his unit unbreakable. If it does get in combat, the Rat Ogre on the back is actually nearly as powerful as the Bonebreaker mount and it doesn't die as soon as something sneezes at it. Plus you have the impact hits if it charges, the Grey Seer can avoid challenges without any penalties and even if the enemy directs their attacks to the Grey Seer he still has his 4+ ward. Better than anything the Warlord can get.

I'll concede that magic is always random and a bad roll for spells can be irritating but we have so many good ones that their aren't many combinations that would make the Seer useless. Even Skitterleap is a fantastic spell if used properly. Though I'll also admit I'd probably never touch the Plague lore for him, I'd rather have 4 spells in Ruin.

If I want something killy I'll take a Plague Priest with Warlock Enhanced Weapon. That gives me the same attacking power that a Warlord can get along with a level 2 wizard and T5 without having to make him the general.

MUTATE: I just re-read my posts and realised I'm coming across as quite beliggerent, so I apologise if I'm sounding angry. It's probably because I'm at work on a Saturday afternoon :P

I'm not poo-pooing anyone's particular playstyle, it's just the Warlord in his current incarnation probably won't be finding his way into my lists anymore.
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Tenno


the bell is teh suck now and grey seers are meh at best, that said i used to use both all the time but now the bell is just a death trap for the seer unless u keep it out of the fight which is just a waste of clanrats even more of a waste if hes with stormvermin. once i decide on a build im dropping it for a warlord on rat ogre probably with the fellblade, its on the roll of a 1-2 that he gets hurt good odds i say considering the benefits, i do like the warlock-augmented weapon build to
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Tenoshii
Warlord
Tenno
Nov 14 2009, 10:14 AM
the bell is teh suck now and grey seers are meh at best, that said i used to use both all the time but now the bell is just a death trap for the seer unless u keep it out of the fight which is just a waste of clanrats even more of a waste if hes with stormvermin. once i decide on a build im dropping it for a warlord on rat ogre probably with the fellblade, its on the roll of a 1-2 that he gets hurt good odds i say considering the benefits, i do like the warlock-augmented weapon build to

How is the Bell a deathtrap? It gives him even more protection that last edition and it doesn't die from a single S7 hit anymore.

The Warlord on Rat Ogre is more vunerable than a Seer on the bell, especially with the Fellblade.
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Tenno


its a death trap he gets singled out in combat and killed only way to protect him is to keep it out of combat now the not insta-killed is the only good thing about it now, a warlord on ogre may be just as at risk but he could do alot more befor killed and is alot cheaper so u can get more into ur list



mutat he could get a 4+ inv befor 2 so thats nothing new
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Tenoshii
Warlord
Tenno
Nov 14 2009, 10:25 AM
its a death trap he gets singled out in combat and killed only way to protect him is to keep it out of combat now the not insta-killed is the only good thing about it now, a warlord on ogre may be just as at risk but he could do alot more befor killed and is alot cheaper so u can get more into ur list

Hasn't that always been the case though? The Grey Seer has always been targettable, just like a character on chariot. His survivability has only gone up with the 4+ ward save.

The Rat Ogre mount only has one more attack than the Bell, has no impact hits and is far easier to kill, though the Bell doesn't need to be in combat to do it's job.
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Rhellion
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Warlord
I'm going to be running a Warlord on a war-litter with an enchanted shield, warlock-augmented weapon, and foul pendant. I've already made my conversion and it looks sweet. I am going to have a hard time decided when the new bell kit is released, though.
Rhellion's Tabletop blog
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Tenno


yeah it was but the extra dice made it werth it even if u kept it out of combat
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Tenoshii
Warlord
Rhellion
Nov 14 2009, 10:32 AM
I'm going to be running a Warlord on a war-litter with an enchanted shield, warlock-augmented weapon, and foul pendant. I've already made my conversion and it looks sweet. I am going to have a hard time decided when the new bell kit is released, though.

If I were to take a Warlord, this would be the one. Cheap, lots of attacks, not targettable outside of combat and the best defense a Warlord can get.
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
I still say the Vermin Lord is the best lord choice. Even though you lose a point of leadership having to go with a hero for your general, having a nigh unkillable level 4 caster more than makes up for it. Just go heavy with the immune to psych units, monks and censers for special, and throw away units with big rank bonus, like giant rats for core.

Also, someone mentioned the war litter for not being targettable. Wouldn't the lord on a rat ogre bonebreaker be untargettable in a rat ogre unit? With skreel in there that could be a nice hammer unit.
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Nevamore
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Stormvermin
In 2k point games, grey seer on a bell. Approx 500 points to give a unit MR2, unbreakable and impact hits. Also one that has a great chance of getting the charge (10" plus rolling 1 dice on the bell chart gives a good chance for the D6 inch movevment).

On top of that, you have a caster that starts at lvl 4, with a 4+ ward save and D3 warpstone tokens! Take that into account and you'll see those things alone are worth around 100 points.

For the spell choices, until I've used it a few times, I'll be taking 3 spells from ruin, and 1 from plague. Depending on what spells I get, I might swap one for the 13th spell (why not? :D).

As for magic items, I'm thinking skalm and rival hide talisman for some nice protection (if you end up fighting a killy enemy character, this should buy you some time). Also a power stone or 2, just to help get off that awesome 13th spell.

Final reason for taking a grey seer... just look at the model. Yes, it really is THAT epic.

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
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CapAmr05
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Quote:
 
I'm going to be running a Warlord on a war-litter with an enchanted shield, warlock-augmented weapon, and foul pendant.


After loving my 6th Edition Fellblade build, I have to agree that this appears to be the best build for my Warlord in 7th edition.

The prospect of subbing in the bonebreaker is also tempting, but for now Skritt's going with the warlitter.

--Cap
Lonewolf Grand Tournament April 28-30

The Beer Phase Podcast

Clan Skrittar
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Aldaris
Clanrat
Kevlar
Nov 14 2009, 07:28 PM
Also, someone mentioned the war litter for not being targettable. Wouldn't the lord on a rat ogre bonebreaker be untargettable in a rat ogre unit? With skreel in there that could be a nice hammer unit.

I actually don't know (as I have never encountered that particular situation before), but I think he'd be targettable anyway. US5+ can be picked out by shooting, as far as I know regardless of what kind of unit he's in.

As to Skweel, I wouldn't bother with him, ROgres with a Bonebreaker Warlord should be killy enough.
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Tenoshii
Warlord
Quote:
 
I still say the Vermin Lord is the best lord choice.  Even though you lose a point of leadership having to go with a hero for your general, having a nigh unkillable level 4 caster more than makes up for it.  Just go heavy with the immune to psych units, monks and censers for special,  and throw away units with big rank bonus, like giant rats for core.


I wouldn't say he's nigh unkillable. He's a toughness 5 large target, no armour, only a 5+ ward to protect him and he can't join any units for protection. Vermin Lord is extremely cool and I'm very glad he's back, but I don't think he'll be used in anything less than 3k as he's actually pretty fragile for so many points.

Quote:
 
Also, someone mentioned the war litter for not being targettable.  Wouldn't the lord on a rat ogre bonebreaker be untargettable in a rat ogre unit?  With skreel in there that could be a nice hammer unit.


This is true, though Rat Ogres have their own survivability problems. If the Packmasters die, your general is in a unit taking stupidity tests on LD7

MUTATE: Actually, the above poster is right I believe. ROgres are US3, General on Bonebreaker would still be targettable.
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The MexiMan
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Stormvermin
My vote goes for the Grey Seer on bell because it brings so much more to the table, will cause more problems for the opponent and it is more survivable.

And yes putting a Rat Ogre Warlord in a unit will not protect it since he is US5 and can be targeted separately.
THE REAL MexiMan
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Kevlar
Doomwheel Driver
The MexiMan
Nov 14 2009, 05:49 PM
My vote goes for the Grey Seer on bell because it brings so much more to the table, will cause more problems for the opponent and it is more survivable.

And yes putting a Rat Ogre Warlord in a unit will not protect it since he is US5 and can be targeted separately.

The vermin lord is much more survivable than the seer. With his WS, T, And wounds you probably won't be using the 5+ ward a whole lot. Not to mention his great initiative and charge range.
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