| 7th Edition Magic Banners; my opinion, give yours too! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 9th November 2009 - 05:19 AM (513 Views) | |
| scrivener | 9th November 2009 - 05:19 AM Post #1 |
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*toot*
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Ok, so we didn't get as many static CR booster banners as I'd have hoped. I'm looking through the banners now, and I'm finding most of them not exactly as obviously potent as I'd have liked. So what I'd like to do is to try and find ways that these banners could be used on the battlefield. Sacred Banner of the Horned Rat The kid brother of the Sacred Standard of the Horned Rat, I assume. It still runs along the same sort of lines, except Fear has now been replaced with an enemy Ld debuff. My immediate reaction was that this may not have the same sort of potency we had with creating a hammer unit, but its effect is a little more subtle and spread out this time. Where the SSotHR was a chainsaw, the SBotHR is more like slipping a few drops of poison into your enemy's drinking water. Probably used best in conjunction with Fear/Terror-causers and units that can spark Ld tests (e.g. WFTs) and the like to get the most juice out of it. Stormbanner The jury is still out as to whether this is a one-use item still, but the application for it remains the same. Still the best thing for hordey armies to cripple flying monsters and shooty armies, and one of our best banners for any list except a shooty-heavy skaven army. Banner of Clan Supremacy A more temperamental version of the Banner of the Swarm, you have the added potential to get more than what the Banner of the Swarm gave in exchange for the unreliability of just getting a regular bonus instead. The unreliableness does make it rather a fun gamble, even if you may not actually get your money's worth as a result of that. The strangeness of using ranks to measure the outnumbering looks to me like it might spark a few rule debates, unfortunately (not worded well there IMO). Shroud of Dripping Death A strange fella, this one. It doesn't seem to have the same sort of mass-killing potential of the cheaper Underempire banner, perhaps more tuned towards taking on small units of high-armoured troops and giving a slight survivability to your BSB. I toyed with the idea of using it as a surprise on anyone trying to kill the BSB who's now forced to stand at the front, but I personally think that's not really worth investing in a whole banner for, especially since it's not a character-killer sort of effect. The second effect is more of a little surprise to spring on the enemy, but the fact that you've got to break first does take the edge away from it being used as a deliberate tool for that purpose. Banner of the UnderEmpire Named in honour of this forum, I'm sure. One of the two hit-causing banners, this banner is the weak-but-numerous one. As with all "weak-but-numerous" attacks, best for large units of soft troops (gobbos, zombies...). Might also give you the drop on stuff like high elves: S2 is not hot but in high numbers it's bound to take out a few of the softer unit types, and when you're dealing with ASF it's always good to get a few shots in first.Additionally, unlike Dripping Death it's base contact with the unit, not the standard bearer, so you actually get more out of it if you get multiple-charged... assuming your unit can handle a flank/rear charge, of course... Dwarf Hide Banner "soaked in warp-infused urine", it says. Someone's been having a jug of skavenade too many, I assume. Your unit gets hatred of dwarves. :mellow: So it has no use outside of fighting against a dwarf army. And in return, dwarves get Hatred on your unit. Wonderful. Whose side is this banner on anyway? Except for some very specialised usage you may find for this, it's probably the stupidest banner I've ever come across. Best left in the toilet it came from, IMO.Banner of Verminous Scurrying A movement buff, but a double-edged sword one. Once a battle you get to march at triple speed and take some significant damage in return. So now you have the ability to send a weakened unit way ahead of everyone else... it has uses, but probably best for a specific purpose where you need to close in real fast. Use in conjunction with warpgrinders and nightrunners for an army with some surprise manouvering, or hold back a hammer unit and send it sprinting forward to blindside the enemy. the friendly damage it causes, however, tends to discourage me putting it on stormvermin and monks, expensive as they are. |
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| Pestilent Lord | 9th November 2009 - 06:01 AM Post #2 |
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Doomwheel Driver
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You forgot the Plague Banner! Who doesn't like re-rolls on all failed to Hit and to Wound rolls for one turn. On Plague Monks no less Of course, it doesn't help the monks deal with those pesky armor saves. Personally, I wouldn't sell our hit causing banners short just yet. The Shroud of Dripping Death might only affect a few models per turn, but it does have those disturbing words 'no armor save' in it. I explained this thing to a friend who plays Dark Elves. He gave a visible twitch when he realized how close his Cold Ones came to fighting the bearer. It's equally bad news for ASF (stinking Black Guard with ASF Banner). And of course The Shroud and The Banner of the UnderEmpire both have some truly impressive potential if you could get a well-placed Wither spell or two in effect. I pretty much agree with your assessments on all the other banners. |
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“A player is never late, Dave. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when the plot dictates he should.” Skaven 7th: W/L/D 6/5/2 High Elves: 2/3/1 | |
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| reddogfish77 | 9th November 2009 - 06:04 AM Post #3 |
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Grey Seer
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i would gladly suffer 2D6 S3 hits to move 15" in one turn... especially good for a bell unit. ring the bell with one dice after that and prob get a charge after starting between 15 and 21" from your opponent. |
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| ==Me== | 9th November 2009 - 12:52 PM Post #4 |
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I miss ==My== Bell
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I love the Banner of the Under Empire on my Plague Furnace unit. |
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Your friendly neighborhood powergamer. Check out ==My== blog: Blackjack & Hookers | |
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| kizzlesticks | 9th November 2009 - 01:56 PM Post #5 |
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Pick-up 'Sticks
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A friend of mine pointed out that we seem to have a good number of things in our list that negate armor either partially or totally, but thats getting distracted... I think the Dwarf-Hide banner mightn't be as useless as you think, although I would definitely agree that it is situational. A by-product of Hatred is that you must always pursue your hated foe if they flee, even leaving a defended place to do so. Because the dwarf unit gets to re-roll misses it is more likely to kill more rats and win the combat, especially if you are careful to leave the unit outside of your generals bubble. If your unit flees and the dwarfs have to stumble after them you might be able to get the stunties all out of position, allowing flank charges and the like. Or I suppose you could use it to give our units a chance of fighting against war machine crew ![]() Later! 'Sticks |
Woomba: The Hypherion Incident-OOC
I'm back, and here to stay! | |
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| Stripsteak | 9th November 2009 - 05:03 PM Post #6 |
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Warlord
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My problem with this banner is that clanrats can't take it without a bsb. i really wish we had gotten a 1 unit of clanrats can take a 15pt banner or something to that affect. the only use i can see for this banner is getting a furnace/bell into someones face. bell with this banner can cover 15-21" a turn depending on your dice. if you go second that is a first turn charge (unless facing a nonmoving gunline) with an impact hitting unbreakable unit. just make sure this unit is sufficiently huge
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| Jester | 10th November 2009 - 01:40 AM Post #7 |
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Chieftain
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I don't know what to think of the banner of the horned rat. I've been looking for a reason to take a battle standard but being able to take the storm banner without a bsb haven't been able to justify taking a bsb since I never lose combat . Anyone have any success with it or does it seem to be a waste of points. It looks good on paper but I guess I'll have to try it out a few games and see if it does me some justice. May I add the displeasure my bsb has as well with the lead from rear rule being gone . Makes it harder to dump points into him with a banner as well since he is quite vulnerable now.
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| My current project High Elves army diary | |
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| scrivener | 10th November 2009 - 01:50 AM Post #8 |
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*toot*
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There's still the possibility that you could bunker the BSB in a unit behind the frontline (keeping in mind the risk of that unit fleeing into him) and try to get its range effect in place while trying to avoid combat. Its umbrella may cover most of the units fighting with your frontline. |
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| Jester | 10th November 2009 - 01:57 AM Post #9 |
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Chieftain
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True. The reroll is only units in base contact which is what I believe to be the invaluable part of the banner. I guess the -1 ld and rerolls for my units (which is established I never need :P, unless I intend to lose of course <_< ) could be pretty covered with him hiding behind units making him semi useful but probably not almost 150 points worth of useful. Maybe if I were to play a skryre type army with panic tests being more prevalent this may be more tempting to take I guess. I'll never know till I try it huh. Perhaps tomorrow. |
| My current project High Elves army diary | |
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| Abhorsen | 10th November 2009 - 02:29 AM Post #10 |
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Clanrat
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what about using the movement banner to flank? i am not very good with thinking things out i have to play with them in a game to be sure, but it seems like it could work sorta well. cant remember if u can put a bsb in a unit of rat ogres, or giant rats, but that would be an 18 inch move, which is nothing to laugh at. or if u got like a unit of 30 monks with there extra toughness u would not lose all that many from the bad parts and than rushed up a flank with some rat ogres or something else nasty. i am curious what u guys think of this. |
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| FatherSquee | 10th November 2009 - 02:37 AM Post #11 |
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Holder of Clan Pestilens "Most Sexiest" Award
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We've got a couple of Leadership reducing items now, so if you stick them and the BofHR together it could be good, especially if you pair it up with our fear/terror causers. Not to mention Skaven are usually seen as the shifty leadership army, it'll be fun to turn the tables on our enemies for once! The Shroud of Dripping Death, man I am so tempted to model this guy up as holding it way out in front of him; trying to drip it all over the enemy and not himself
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| reddogfish77 | 10th November 2009 - 03:04 AM Post #12 |
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Grey Seer
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the movement banner wouldnt work with giant rats or ogres... cause only a guy with M5 could carry it... cant you set up a bell unit like this... ....CCBBBC.... .... cSBBBc..... ....cc BBBc..... ....cc BBBc.... big C's represent command of clanrats which must go in front rank. the big S is the BSB... he is tucked in nice and close to the bell as central as possible... therefore he meets all the requirements yet is safely tucked away from harm... is this legal. |
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One of the two hit-causing banners, this banner is the weak-but-numerous one. As with all "weak-but-numerous" attacks, best for large units of soft troops (gobbos, zombies...). Might also give you the drop on stuff like high elves: S2 is not hot but in high numbers it's bound to take out a few of the softer unit types, and when you're dealing with ASF it's always good to get a few shots in first.




Of course, it doesn't help the monks deal with those pesky armor saves.

. Anyone have any success with it or does it seem to be a waste of points. It looks good on paper but I guess I'll have to try it out a few games and see if it does me some justice. May I add the displeasure my bsb has as well with the lead from rear rule being gone
. Makes it harder to dump points into him with a banner as well since he is quite vulnerable now.
